Windows 10

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Windows 10

Postby Witness » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:27 pm

No 9… Can't understand why people are so excited about the start menu, or its absence. Anyway:

Extreme Tech wrote:Microsoft has unveiled Windows 10 — not Windows 9, but Windows 10. The launch event in San Francisco was mostly what we expected: Microsoft wants to make Windows 10 a killer OS for all of those disaffected mouse-and-keyboard users — both normal Desktop users like you and I, and also the big enterprise customers who were rather displeased with Windows 8′s Metro interface.


Details here

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Re: Windows 10

Postby Pyrrho » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:47 pm

:cowbell:

or

:hyper:

I dunno. Whatever.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:13 am

Can't understand why people are so excited about the start menu, or its absence.


A picture is worth 28 words

Image


Because it is central to most every process I'm used to. It has been my primary navigation tool for 20 years. It all starts with start. Even stop. :)

Image

This is our presenter, Microsoft's Vice President of Duh.

This does not bode well.

I'm not sure if that is a bad comb-over or intentionally done that way as some sort of fashion statement. I'm going to give him the benefit of doubt and call it a comb-over. I instinctively distrust any guy with a 'hairdo'. I only reluctantly respect Mohawks.

To the matter at hand. We only have a 4 minute video with 2 of those eaten up by mister weird.

I note they provided the ability to create a second desktop and a task view function. That's very osx10.6 of them. That might be useful. They bring back the traditional start button but paste a metro ... flag?... on it. I suppose that's some sort of a face-saving device for them. I would have to find a way to nix that 'busyness'. Not looking for flash or fancy. Looking purely for function. That's really the root of it.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby asthmatic camel » Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:32 am

You only dislike "hairdos" because you have none left to "do".

:P

I digress. Removing the start button was a HUGE, (if easily fixed), FAIL, and I don't understand why M$ didn't bring it back in 8.1 after all the complaints. It doesn't hurt to admit to being wrong once in a while.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby ed » Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:31 am

odd that they don't test products before they release them.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby asthmatic camel » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 am

I suppose that would rob them of all the launch hype. I'd be more concerned with hyping something that my customers actually want but there you go.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:37 am

asthmatic camel wrote:I suppose that would rob them of all the launch hype.


Whats that supposed to mean!? :x

ed wrote:odd that they don't test products before they release them.


I'm sure they have hand-selected focus groups. Therein lies the problem: hand selected.

Tell me if you think I'm wrong ...

They have a goal in mind: One Windows.
We're sorry the focus group didn't like the changes but the changes are [deemed] necessary [by us] to [once again try to] expand our market into the [rapidly] growing mobile market and reduce dependance on the shrinking desktop market. Fire the focus group and get one that approves.


Note the start 'new' start menu

Image

Which is, minus the useful part on the left we're all used to, the mobile desktop. Initiate. Indoctrinate. Brand (as a verb).

The video is a hoot though. "Look, each window has a title bar!11?eleventy!"

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Re: Windows 10

Postby ed » Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:16 pm

I've had a lot of experience with focus groups, my wife actually had a company that did them. In their place they are very useful, sadly they can also serve as a rorschach and therein lies the problem. If they are performed to support a decision that is simply dishonest.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby DrMatt » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:40 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Because it is central to most every process I'm used to. It has been my primary navigation tool for 20 years. It all starts with start. Even stop.


Win3.1 didn't have a Start menu.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:28 pm

DrMatt wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:Because it is central to most every process I'm used to. It has been my primary navigation tool for 20 years. It all starts with start. Even stop.


Win3.1 didn't have a Start menu.


Image

95 did, which was out in 96. 18 years ago. So ...

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Re: Windows 10

Postby DrMatt » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:37 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Image

This is our presenter, Microsoft's Führer of Duh.


FTFY
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Re: Windows 10

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:40 pm

Thanks matt, and while we're scuttlebutting, here's the major player 'plug-in' for Microsoft 3.1, way back in 94. We called them shells back then, iirc

Image

So the major advance was the start button. It brought it all together. With 8, they succeeded in tearing it utterly apart.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby DrMatt » Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:46 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Thanks matt, and while we're scuttlebutting, here's the major player 'plug-in' for Microsoft 3.1, way back in 94. We called them shells back then, iirc

Image

So the major advance was the start button. It brought it all together. With 8, they succeeded in tearing it utterly apart.

The Start Button was just one of a bunch of things they created all at once, including the Recycle Bin, that were all knockoffs of the GUI of Xerox LISP Machines from 1980. Of course, the fruit brand did the same 12 years earlier, in 1983, creating the market space that allowed W95 to flourish.
Really, though, uniformity of keystrokes and menu layouts across a large number of applications was the thing that made W95 so much better than earlier MS offerings. That, of course, had been carved into the market by, you guessed it, Xerox and Apple.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby Rob Lister » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:09 pm

Ah, to reminisce. I created an edit to my post above yours to illustrate how that shell was just Macintosh 10 years late. I went back to check1 that I would not impede on a reply and though my negligence, lost my post. Not to worry, since you provided the gist of it better.

But only if Jobs had had his way ...

The MAC had a start button, of sorts; the Apple in the upper right. The one we've grown to love has two start buttons, depending on what you want to start. These are good and proper but Microsoft did them better, IMO.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the Start Button was and is important.

Jobs fucked up so royally. He let them oust him. He'd have dominated Gates; of that I'm sure. Of course, you can't change History without changing the present, so we might now all be talking about how fucked up Apple is.

P.S. I don't mean to diminish your reference to XEROX et al but I would point out that they did not have a finger on the popular market; they were not able to either recognize nor deploy those advances. Like silver in a mine, if I may.

1. necessary since pyrrho gave in to lesser local market forces and removed the warning.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby Doctor X » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:04 am

To be fair, Jobs had some strange ideas.

He also did not understand, until years later, that the "point" was the software and not the hardware. Still, Apple promotes hardware: NEW iMacBookPRO--"because you are a professional! Those who do not buy the 'pro' version could never bring Mila Kunis to orgasm. No, better your limp dick stick with a Dell and Windows. Buy her enough booze and she might let you touch her breasts . . . maybe. Then she will fuck your brother."

Hook them on software. Even if it is M$ shitty, because it is always easier to stick with what you know. I always love it when a PC/M$ user complains they do not want to use a Mac because it is "complicated." What?

So Jobs built NeXT which was nice . . . but why would you buy a "nice" computer which ONLY runs software for it primarily?

I think the iPod/iPhone changed everything for Mac. Popular software. People want it. They will buy your shitty EVEN BIGGER THUS MORE UNWEILDY iphone just to have it.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby asthmatic camel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:09 am

My major beef with 8 is that it's so difficult to gat "under the bonnet/hood" without the traditional start button, (where do you find a command prompt, how do you get the fucker to work once you've found it etc.) Rarely a problem for most folks but it's a fucking nuisance for me. Otherwise I like it well enough.

Macs? Fine apart from the hugely inflated cost of the fucking things. I ain't handing over my hard-earned for one, no matter how shiny it looks.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby Grammatron » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:33 am

asthmatic camel wrote:My major beef with 8 is that it's so difficult to gat "under the bonnet/hood" without the traditional start button, (where do you find a command prompt, how do you get the fucker to work once you've found it etc.) Rarely a problem for most folks but it's a fucking nuisance for me. Otherwise I like it well enough.

Macs? Fine apart from the hugely inflated cost of the fucking things. I ain't handing over my hard-earned for one, no matter how shiny it looks.


You press the start button on your keyboard, type "cmd" and press enter.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby asthmatic camel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 9:34 am

Yes, I know that now but why change something that's so simple, handy and has been there in Windows nearly forever? Same with moving things around in control panel so you have to search and find them, it doesn't make sense.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Windows 10

Postby DrMatt » Thu Oct 02, 2014 2:11 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:Yes, I know that now but why change something that's so simple, handy and has been there in Windows nearly forever? Same with moving things around in control panel so you have to search and find them, it doesn't make sense.

I made a shortcut to Programs And Features and renamed it to Add Remove Programs. But I didn't feel like fiddling to install it in the Control Panel proper--My guess is that it's in the registry.
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Re: Windows 10

Postby asthmatic camel » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:18 pm

I've tweaked it so most things are easy to get at now but it was irritating. You have to go from the desktop to the metro screen to add things to the desktop, how stupid is that?

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.


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