July 4 Civil War

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby sparks » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:22 pm

@Xoup:

You are a zero sum Cunt.

cornfield.jpg


But thanks for playing! Dipshit.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:56 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:There was no change in foreign policy when Hillary became Secretary of State. Or when Trump became president.


Going from committed free trade to protectionism is a massive change.


Two points:

1. We did not have free trade before 2017.

2. I am not convinced Trump is against free trade, or at least trade with a level paying field.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 8:57 pm

sparks wrote:@Xoup:

You are a zero sum Cunt.

cornfield.jpg

But thanks for playing! Dipshit.


That was uncalled for.

What did I ever do to you to elicit such hostility and incivility?

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby Doctor X » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:07 pm

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:15 pm

xouper wrote:
In fact, I would suppose that the kind of hostility you display here towards the so-called "deplorables" will inspire more people to vote against your favorite candidates.


Reasoning with people who think strong criticism of deplorable bullshit is justification for politically supporting deplorable bullshit is a fools errand. It really can't be helped.

If these people were swayed by surface impoliteness, supporting Trump is, well, a pretty conclusive sign they are full of shit.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:33 pm

xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:There was no change in foreign policy when Hillary became Secretary of State. Or when Trump became president.


Going from committed free trade to protectionism is a massive change.


Two points:

1. We did not have free trade before 2017.

2. I am not convinced Trump is against free trade, or at least trade with a level paying field.


Definitions are fun.

Who cares about a level playing field. Either we prosper or we don't, and at the status quo the US was definitely doing well. The problem was with the distribution of that prosperity.

Just going ahead and trying to better redistribute the prosperity to help out the people whose skills were rendered unmarketable by unavoidable economic shifts rather than derail the system to push the US further down the chain of supply so maybe a steel mill opens somewhere and they can have jobs seems more wise to me, but I'm just a practical guy.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:35 pm

Which leads me to a thought.

If there were nothing to the idea that Trump's fan club places "getting the libs really mad" over all other considerations, then there would be nothing to the very common argument that "Criticism of Trump == More votes for Trump".

So you guys (you know who you are) can have one or the other, not both of those arguments
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:37 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:In fact, I would suppose that the kind of hostility you display here towards the so-called "deplorables" will inspire more people to vote against your favorite candidates.


Reasoning with people who think strong criticism of deplorable bullshit is justification for politically supporting deplorable bullshit is a fools errand. It really can't be helped.

If these people were swayed by surface impoliteness, supporting Trump is, well, a pretty conclusive sign they are full of shit.


That does not justify your hostility and name-calling.

Furthermore, what you are calling bullshit is merely your subjective interpretation or opinion, not an objective fact. You have not given any reasonable arguments whatsoever, you have merely expressed your subjective opinions which are clearly filtered through your personal biases and prejudices.

Even more furthermorely, you are choosing instead to engage in name-calling and demonizing those who disagree with your subjective opinions, which is a clear sign you are not interested in any kind of reasonable conversation in the first place.

Therefore I reject your complaints about being unable to reason with "those people".

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby sparks » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:38 pm

xouper wrote:
sparks wrote:@Xoup:

You are a zero sum Cunt.

cornfield.jpg

But thanks for playing! Dipshit.


That was uncalled for.

What did I ever do to you to elicit such hostility and incivility?


Not hostility. Not incivility.

It's simply my humble opinion of the way you are behaving.

In the cornfield.


You're not a zero sum person? Then you admit that you gain while others lose. That makes you a Cunt. And anyone with eyes to see has already seen what a ... thing ... Teh Orange Fucktard is.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:44 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:There was no change in foreign policy when Hillary became Secretary of State. Or when Trump became president.


Going from committed free trade to protectionism is a massive change.


Two points:

1. We did not have free trade before 2017.

2. I am not convinced Trump is against free trade, or at least trade with a level paying field.


Definitions are fun.

Who cares about a level playing field.


OK, thanks for explaining that you do not define free trade as actually being free of tariffs and other governmental interference in the free market, etc.

How much tariff do you allow our trading partners to impose on our exports and still call it "free trade"?

Example: What are the current European tariffs on US made automobiles and what were they for the past decade? And why do you call that "free trade"?


RCC: Act II wrote:Either we prosper or we don't, and at the status quo the US was definitely doing well.


An excessive trade deficit is not "doing well". It is not sustainable. Something needed to be done, and history will record whether Trump's tactics worked or not.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:50 pm

sparks wrote:
xouper wrote:
sparks wrote:@Xoup:

You are a zero sum Cunt.

cornfield.jpg

But thanks for playing! Dipshit.


That was uncalled for.

What did I ever do to you to elicit such hostility and incivility?


Not hostility. Not incivility.


Are you seriously expecting anyone here to believe that calling someone a cunt or a dipshit is civil behavior?


sparks wrote:You're not a zero sum person? Then you admit that you gain while others lose.


You have that backwards. A zero sum person says that one can only win if someone else loses.

I am not that person. And neither is Trump.

A non-zero-sum person (such as myself) says both can win if they can agree on an appropriate deal.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:53 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Which leads me to a thought.

If there were nothing to the idea that Trump's fan club places "getting the libs really mad" over all other considerations, then there would be nothing to the very common argument that "Criticism of Trump == More votes for Trump".

So you guys (you know who you are) can have one or the other, not both of those arguments


The logic fail is strong in this one. But since Ny is ignoring me, I won't need to explain to him where the flaw is in his analysis.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby ed » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:56 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
The more I think about it the more it might have to do with those that see the world as a zero sum situation. In a truly zero-sum situation where, say, wealth, is finite, being motivated to impoverish others and being motivated to gain wealth are the same thing.



I believe that the zero sum philosophy is precisely what drives the left. They want what others have rather than figuring out ways to grow the pie.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:57 pm

xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:In fact, I would suppose that the kind of hostility you display here towards the so-called "deplorables" will inspire more people to vote against your favorite candidates.


Reasoning with people who think strong criticism of deplorable bullshit is justification for politically supporting deplorable bullshit is a fools errand. It really can't be helped.

If these people were swayed by surface impoliteness, supporting Trump is, well, a pretty conclusive sign they are full of shit.


That does not justify your hostility and name-calling.

I don't think I need justification. Are you aware of what this forum is?

I've been snide and course on this forum since forever. I go out of my way to do so. Most people have figured that out. Even Ed, and I don't think he knows how shoes work.


Furthermore, what you are calling bullshit is merely your subjective interpretation or opinion, not an objective fact. You have not given any reasonable arguments whatsoever, you have merely expressed your subjective opinions which are clearly filtered through your personal biases and prejudices.

My political opinions are my opinion? Do tell.

Whether my bias whatever blah blah blah. OMG!!! MEANIE!!!!!





Even more furthermorely, you are choosing instead to engage in name-calling and demonizing those who disagree with your subjective opinions, which is a clear sign you are not interested in any kind of reasonable conversation in the first place.

Therefore I reject your complaints about being unable to reason with "those people".


I can reason just fine. I can also juggle. Both have the same effect on people who are just looking for an excuse to not give a shit about sticking children in cages, labeling the press as the enemy of the people, and floating absurd conspiracy theories about the FBI as political cover.

They deserve to be mocked, and as luck would have it, I now and then am willing to be of service.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby ed » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:01 pm

I do so know. Figured it out this AM. Dipshit.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:04 pm

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
The more I think about it the more it might have to do with those that see the world as a zero sum situation. In a truly zero-sum situation where, say, wealth, is finite, being motivated to impoverish others and being motivated to gain wealth are the same thing.



I believe that the zero sum philosophy is precisely what drives the left. They want what others have rather than figuring out ways to grow the pie.


Maybe some, but it isn't like Keynesians are arguing against economic growth or anything.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby ed » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:07 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
The more I think about it the more it might have to do with those that see the world as a zero sum situation. In a truly zero-sum situation where, say, wealth, is finite, being motivated to impoverish others and being motivated to gain wealth are the same thing.



I believe that the zero sum philosophy is precisely what drives the left. They want what others have rather than figuring out ways to grow the pie.


Maybe some, but it isn't like Keynesians are arguing against economic growth or anything.


The implication of their argument is stagnation.
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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:07 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
xouper wrote:That does not justify your hostility and name-calling.


I don't think I need justification. Are you aware of what this forum is?


Please, do tell me what you think this forum is.


RCC: Act II wrote:I've been snide and course on this forum since forever. I go out of my way to do so. Most people have figured that out. Even Ed, and I don't think he knows how shoes work.


OK, I will accept that. I've been on this forum from the beginning and I don't recall seeing that side of you before. Apparently I wasn't reading enough of your posts.

In any case, thanks for explaining that you are not here to engage in reasonable conversation (for certain topics), and yet you complain about others being unreasonable. You are certainly entitled to do that, of course, just as I am entitled to notice the hypocrisy in it.


RCC: Act II wrote:I can reason just fine.


I agree.

I have seen it on this forum in other topics.

I have not seen it here in this thread with respect to anything relating to Trump.

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:15 pm

xouper wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Either we prosper or we don't, and at the status quo the US was definitely doing well.


An excessive trade deficit is not "doing well". It is not sustainable. Something needed to be done, and history will record whether Trump's tactics worked or not.


Nothing is sustainable.

If it works, it works. The only thing making it not work is the people that claim it doesn't fucking it up.

I usually let the golden goose lay all the eggs before grabbing the axe...

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Re: July 4 Civil War

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 10:18 pm

"Free trade" if it is anything other than a meaningless slogan, means no third party involved between buyer and seller across national borders.
And quite literally nobody wants that. Even libertarians when you put them on the spot.

A treaty with all kinds of rules and regulations is not a free trade agreement, even if it is called that.
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