Gun owners with dementia

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Pyrrho
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Gun owners with dementia

Postby Pyrrho » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:16 pm

Article appears to be a bit slanted, however...

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https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/unl ... a-and-guns

From news reports, court records, hospital data and public death records, KHN found 15 homicides and more than 60 suicides since 2012, although there are likely many more. The shooters often acted during bouts of confusion, paranoia, delusion or aggression — common symptoms of dementia. They killed people closest to them — their caretaker, wife, son or daughter. They shot at people they happened to encounter — a mailman, a police officer, a train conductor. At least four men with dementia who brandished guns were fatally shot by police. In cases where charges were brought, many assailants were deemed incompetent to stand trial.

Many killed themselves. Among men in the U.S., the suicide rate is highest among those 65 and older; firearms are the most common method, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

These statistics do not begin to tally incidents in which a person with dementia waves a gun at an unsuspecting neighbor or a terrified home health aide.

Volunteers with Alzheimer’s San Diego, a nonprofit group, became alarmed when they visited people with dementia to give caregivers a break — and found 25 to 30 percent of those homes had guns, said Jessica Empeño, the group’s vice president.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:08 pm

Therefore anyone who has or wants a firearm (or 20) is demented.

Got it. :)
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby WildCat » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:13 pm

Pyrrho wrote:Article appears to be a bit slanted, however...

No kidding. I dismiss any gun control argument that includes suicides in their numbers, because there's no evidence at all that suicide rates are influenced by gun ownership.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby ed » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:41 pm

From news reports, court records, hospital data and public death records, KHN found 15 homicides and more than 60 suicides since 2012,

3 homicides and 12 suicides per year.
Fucking rounding error.

although there are likely many more. T


Really? I think it is likely that there are less.

Idiot.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby sparks » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:29 pm

WildCat wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Article appears to be a bit slanted, however...

No kidding. I dismiss any gun control argument that includes suicides in their numbers, because there's no evidence at all that suicide rates are influenced by gun ownership.


Perhaps not ownership, but this linky shows suicide by firearm is on the increase.

https://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/def ... deGuns.pdf

Then there is this linky which more closely gets to the point of your statement:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower."
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby WildCat » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:39 pm

sparks wrote:"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower."

Right, I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that Wyoming is sparsely populated and thus suicidal people have less of a social network to get them out of their depression. Also adjust for age, as the elderly commit suicide at higher rates as their friends die off.

If guns were actually a factor the USA would lead the planet in suicides, which we don't.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby sparks » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:43 pm

By your own argument, your conclusion could be wrong according to quality of life in all other countries, could it not?
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby WildCat » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:47 pm

sparks wrote:By your own argument, your conclusion could be wrong according to quality of life in all other countries, could it not?

I don't think we have much different a quality of life than Western Europe does, which has an identical suicide rate and far fewer guns.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:51 pm

WildCat wrote:I don't think we have much different a quality of life than Western Europe does, which has an identical suicide rate and far fewer guns.


All that socialism in Europe leads to despair.

Just imagine how much more they'd kill themselves if they had guns handy. :BigGrin3:












:notsure:
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby sparks » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:04 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
WildCat wrote:I don't think we have much different a quality of life than Western Europe does, which has an identical suicide rate and far fewer guns.


All that socialism in Europe leads to despair.

Just imagine how much more they'd kill themselves if they had guns handy. :BigGrin3:












:notsure:


:lmao:
Last edited by sparks on Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby ed » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:37 pm

sparks wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Pyrrho wrote:Article appears to be a bit slanted, however...

No kidding. I dismiss any gun control argument that includes suicides in their numbers, because there's no evidence at all that suicide rates are influenced by gun ownership.


Perhaps not ownership, but this linky shows suicide by firearm is on the increase.

https://www.bradycampaign.org/sites/def ... deGuns.pdf

Then there is this linky which more closely gets to the point of your statement:

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/magaz ... d-suicide/

"A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Center (ICRC), found that in states where guns were prevalent—as in Wyoming, where 63 percent of households reported owning guns—rates of suicide were higher. The inverse was also true: where gun ownership was less common, suicide rates were also lower."


Sorry, no. There are a plethora of factors that are collinear with gun ownership that could explain the findings.
Shitty research.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby sparks » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:43 pm

Evidences? Thanks ed.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby xouper » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:46 pm

sparks wrote:Evidences? Thanks ed.


No evidences required. Ed is not making a claim that requires evidence, he is pointing out a flaw in the conclusion inferred from that study.

Remember, just because two things correlate does not mean one caused the other, which is what Ed was saying, albeit in a different way.

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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby ed » Wed Jun 27, 2018 9:52 pm

Spare me. We do not live in a univariate world. Age, income and education are obvious factors. Employment status, time in grade, income, savings, family size, religious affiliation & church attendance.

This is basic research stuff. This smells like that crappy prayer research they did a few years ago where they neglected to employ the Bonferroni Correction and ended up with "significant" relationships between prayer and all sorts of stupid crap.

This is why I have dealing with advocacy research, particularly when done by idiots, since it is so crappy that one hardly knows where to start with a critique. and many folks don't really give a shit and simply accept or reject based on their predisposition.
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby Witness » Thu Jun 28, 2018 2:57 am

I won't comment on guns – a somewhat touchy subject here – but as society gets stocked up with old farts like me, and said old farts getting even older than once upon a time but still moving around, dementia or just simply the wearing down of intellectual and physical abilities will have to be taken into account.

I'm thinking mostly of transportation: cars and their drivers, of course, but also things like escalators or railway stations where sometimes lots of people are bunched together and accidents happen… (The escalator part actually happened to me, going down behind – phew! – an old and quite fat lady who lost her footing.)

OK, tomorrow I dine on a ship, I'll try not to fall overboard or into the machinery. :mrgreen:

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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby sparks » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:06 am

Better not or you know what will happen to your stereo! :)

ed, xouper: Very well. No evidences required. I was simply looking for clarification besides "shitty research".

Dipshits. :)
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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby Doctor X » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:07 am

I can introduce you to a forest in Japan. . . .

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Re: Gun owners with dementia

Postby ed » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 am

sparks wrote:Better not or you know what will happen to your stereo! :)

ed, xouper: Very well. No evidences required. I was simply looking for clarification besides "shitty research".

Dipshits. :)



Sorry, feeling feisty.
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