Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for ...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:19 pm

Neither party has relied on "swing voters" for a long time. Elections are won by riling up your base to vote against those other bastards, not by getting the 5% or so of voters who are persuadable to join your side, especially because they aren't really all that persuadable. Even non-partisan aligned voters tend to vote the same party time after time. It's almost like most "swing voters" are just Republicans or Democrats who don't like labels.

ANd the "rile up your base" strategy has the side effect of making parties cater increasingly toward extremes. And here we are.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:20 pm

The last election was lost by DNC because they took chunks of key election states for granted.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:22 pm

corplinx wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

Sadly, you have to get the tallied list of media complicit acts of violence or uncivil behavior from a site like Breitbart (which automatically makes it wrong of course).

I still contend that there is no way to deescalate this and when the right finally get sick of it, the weaker and less armed left will want to hit the reset button suddenly.

The real media ignoring the problem or exacerbating it pushes righties into the fringes since only the fringes are pointing out the plain fact that the media wants trump supporters confronted with ostracism or violence.


Update: The list has grown to 133 incidents.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:22 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Neither party has relied on "swing voters" for a long time. ...


The presidential election numbers show different (as previously noted).

However that is not necessarily a conscious strategy so you may be right as far as that goes.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:27 pm

Democrats staying home had a far greater effect than any crossing of party lines
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:32 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Democrats staying home had a far greater effect than any crossing of party lines


Those are swing voters too.

If they were scared off by Hillary before the election, they will continue to be scared off by all these other antics.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:35 pm

Member when the mainstream media labeled every tea partier a black lynching dog whistler neo confederate hick for one guy hanging Obama in effigy?

The Democrats have actual seditious statements, actual violence, and verbose marching orders. It all gets mansplained away by the media and they get turned into heroes.


So, on the shunning front (which is really a call to Dehumanize wrong-thinkers to make violence against them more acceptable); the Democrat who started #walkaway has already been called Alt-Right by the media.

Welcome former Democrat to the smear machine! First they make sure to either call you Alt-Right or if someone Alt-Right follows you on twitter, an "Alt Right Hero".

You start out a neo-nazi with the non-Fox media and aren't human again until you post something about punching Trump supporters.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:35 pm

They are swing voters only insofar as "not making a choice is still a choice"

If you want to mangle the definition of swing voter to that degree, though. Sure, Swing voters decide every election. Right down to city dog catcher.

But that also means that the strategy both parties are using is best described as "Trying to make sure your party produces fewer swing voters than the other one"
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:40 pm

We have statistics and data to show that swing voters exist and how they vote. I am not sure what your point is Nyar.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:42 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:They are swing voters only insofar as "not making a choice is still a choice"


That is always the case.

Look up voter turn out figures, and remember those figures are for registered voters.
Folks who are legally eligible to vote but just plain never gave a shit aren't even counted.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:46 pm

Grammatron wrote:We have statistics and data to show that swing voters exist and how they vote. I am not sure what your point is Nyar.


Yes. They exist. They comprise roughly 5% of the electorate and we know how they vote. They tend to vote primarily for one party or the other despite eschewing the labels of either one.

And my point is that neither party really gives a shit about a small minority of voters whose potential for "swinginess" is overstated. Let me put it this way, barring a few exceptions (of which you are not one, Gram) I don't think anyone on this board considers themselves hardcore full on member of either party. I.e. one of these semi-mythical potential "swing voters" being discussed.

Do you feel particularly catered to? By either party? Does it seem like either party is bending over backwards for you?

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:52 pm

Between the religious nutjob party and the violent leftist anarchist party, I feel underserved.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:53 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:
Grammatron wrote:We have statistics and data to show that swing voters exist and how they vote. I am not sure what your point is Nyar.


Yes. They exist. They comprise roughly 5% of the electorate and we know how they vote. They tend to vote primarily for one party or the other despite eschewing the labels of either one.

And my point is that neither party really gives a shit about a small minority of voters whose potential for "swinginess" is overstated. Let me put it this way, barring a few exceptions (of which you are not one, Gram) I don't think anyone on this board considers themselves hardcore full on member of either party. I.e. one of these semi-mythical potential "swing voters" being discussed.

Election are won and lost with new strategies using new mass media techniques all the time. Take a small base of voters in a key district for granted and it's billions down the drain.
Do you feel particularly catered to? By either party?


Almost never. But I care about certain issues and sometimes my priorities and priorities of politicians align.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:53 pm

My point exactly
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:55 pm

Grammatron wrote:
Almost never. But I care about certain issues and sometimes my priorities and priorities of politicians align.


I don't doubt that happens from time to time. And when it does, it is purely by accident, not design
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:02 pm

xouper wrote:
corplinx wrote:https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

Sadly, you have to get the tallied list of media complicit acts of violence or uncivil behavior from a site like Breitbart (which automatically makes it wrong of course).

I still contend that there is no way to deescalate this and when the right finally get sick of it, the weaker and less armed left will want to hit the reset button suddenly.

The real media ignoring the problem or exacerbating it pushes righties into the fringes since only the fringes are pointing out the plain fact that the media wants trump supporters confronted with ostracism or violence.


Update: The list has grown to 133 incidents.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/



Update: The list is now 254 incidents of media approved attacks on Trump supporters.

https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/2018/07/05/rap-sheet-acts-of-media-approved-violence-and-harassment-against-trump-supporters/

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby RCC: Act II » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:18 pm

lol breitbart.

What, is Infowars down?

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:49 pm

omg, he used a breitbart link!

checkmate atheist, amirite?

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Doctor X » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:15 pm

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:43 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:lol breitbart. What, is Infowars down?


Fail #1: I don't use Infowars as a source for anything. I don't even go there.

Fail #2: I had expected better from you than to try to smear the reputation of a poster here by falsely insinuating guilt by association for an association that does not exist.

Fail #3: If you want to dispute the accuracy of the report, you need to do better than trying to dismiss them using the fallacy of argumentum ad hominem.



Edited to add: Perhaps I misinterpreted, and you were making a (lame) joke rather than an actual rebuttal.
Last edited by xouper on Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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