Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for ...

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Tue Jul 03, 2018 7:11 pm

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/07 ... fense.html

Dershowitz went on to compare his situation with McCarthyism in the 1950s, when many innocent people were perceived as being sympathetic to communist ideas and were subjected to job firings and blacklists.

“I never thought I would see McCarthyism come to Martha’s Vineyard, but I have. I wonder if the professor who refuses to listen to anything I have to say also treats his students similarly,” he continued. “Would he listen to a student who actively supported Trump? What about one who simply supported his civil liberties?”


the Dersh talks about shunning in liberal circles and debunks Abdul's errors on McCarthyism.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:31 am

https://www.breitbart.com/big-journalis ... upporters/

Sadly, you have to get the tallied list of media complicit acts of violence or uncivil behavior from a site like Breitbart (which automatically makes it wrong of course).

I still contend that there is no way to deescalate this and when the right finally get sick of it, the weaker and less armed left will want to hit the reset button suddenly.

The real media ignoring the problem or exacerbating it pushes righties into the fringes since only the fringes are pointing out the plain fact that the media wants trump supporters confronted with ostracism or violence.
Last edited by corplinx on Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:14 am

Goodness knows I would be a hypocrite for giving you shit over typos. But there are a couple of typos where I literally can't understand that last sentence
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:22 am

yeah, i was on my phone.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Doctor X » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:20 am

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 2:22 pm

Image

When the next Obama is elected, people who harass their staffers in restaurants will be treated as deranged hicks by the media and then the media will wonder why the hicks call them FakeNews still.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:05 pm

The only way Bill Clinton could have been elected is if lots of people who voted for Bill Clinton had also voted for Reagan.

Likewise Bush II with respect to Bill Clinton.

Likewise Obama with respect to Bush II.

Likewise Trump with respect to Obama.

And while all along there were die hard partisans denouncing the other side in immoderate terms,
there was no attempt to get the rank and file to excommunicate those who had voted wrong.

If I liked Trump even a little I'd be saying a lot less about this.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:25 pm

Here's an interesting editorial from my home town newspaper (when I was a kid, I had a Freep paper route, delivering papers in the cold and dark winter mornings):

The Detroit Free Press wrote:
The ricochet effect of public shaming now on full display
Mitch Albom, Detroit Free Press  Published June 30, 2018 | Updated July 2, 2018

. . . The owner of the Red Hen, Stephanie Wilkinson, . . . went over to Sanders and asked for a private word. “I explained that the restaurant has certain standards that I feel it has to uphold, such as honesty and compassion and cooperation. I said, ‘I’d like you to leave.’”

. . . The fact that Wilkinson is being celebrated in certain corners as some kind of hero only shows you how deep into hypocrisy our angry divisions have thrown us. To use words like “honesty, compassion and cooperation” as reasons to evict someone shows a total lack of, well, honesty, compassion and cooperation.

. . . Meanwhile, instead of criticizing the restaurant’s behavior, instead of invoking the Michelle Obama suggestion, “When they go low, we go high,” Waters, who as a congresswoman has an even greater responsibility to that principle, actually upped the ante. She called for public humiliation of every member of Trump’s cabinet.

Think about the words she told her supporters to use: “You’re not welcome anymore, anywhere.” At a time when her biggest issues include immigration, racial injustice, and LGBTQ rights, is that really a sentence she wants to invoke?

It’s tough but simple. You can’t play dirty and complain about the other side playing dirty. You can’t show disrespect and claim you’re being disrespected. Waters, on Friday, bemoaned having to cancel two events out of threats to her safety. Such threats, if made, are wrong and illegal. But can she be surprised? Did she think encouraging her supporters to harass public officials wouldn’t spread like a fire to the other side?


Too much good stuff in there to quote it all. Perhaps those who are interested will go read the whole thing. Or not. :wink:

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:46 pm

While I don’t agree with violence, I have no problem with shunning. Frankly, when you don’t like a person it’s either that or violence, so shunning is the better choice

Besides this whole issue has gone like this.

Republicans in 2016: “Fuck your feeling, libtard cucks.”

Republicans in 2018: “WAAAAAAAH! Stop shunning us and calling us names, libtard cucks!!”


Fuck them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I literally saw someone say “I wish the Libtards would knock it off with all the name calling.” And they didn’t seem to be trying to be funny. As long as that kind of bullshit goes on...well, as I said, shunning is preferable to violence
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:52 pm

Short version

If people are gonna call me names, I am either going to return the favor or shun them. And I am not going to apologize for that.

And it looks like I am not the only one with that policy
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:56 pm

This will only get worse as long as each side thinks the other side started it.

The fact is, the liberals and the liberal mainstream media have escalated it since the election of Trump. So I blame them for the increase in divisiveness.

How do we put a stop to this?

I don't know.

But I do know that if the liberals push it to the point of violence, they will lose, since they have far fewer guns.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Giz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:59 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:While I don’t agree with violence, I have no problem with shunning. Frankly, when you don’t like a person it’s either that or violence, so shunning is the better choice

Besides this whole issue has gone like this.

Republicans in 2016: “Fuck your feeling, libtard cucks.”

Republicans in 2018: “WAAAAAAAH! Stop shunning us and calling us names, libtard cucks!!”


Fuck them. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. I literally saw someone say “I wish the Libtards would knock it off with all the name calling.” And they didn’t seem to be trying to be funny. As long as that kind of bullshit goes on...well, as I said, shunning is preferable to violence


Private citizens shunning , certainly. But businesses, restaurants, etc... no way. (I mean, it might be legal, but it's the worst move morally, socially and strategically that can be imagined).

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:00 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:Short version

If people are gonna call me names, I am either going to return the favor or shun them. And I am not going to apologize for that.

And it looks like I am not the only one with that policy


Fair enough.

But that doesn't explain or justify kicking Sarah Sanders out of a restaurant. Nor does it explain or justify the shooting of Scalise.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Giz » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:01 pm

The USA is a country where a t-shirt or bumper sticker of Che Guevara is unremarkable but a MAGA hat makes you anathema.

Twilight zone.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:03 pm

Sure, its a bad business decision to do it. Potentially catastrophic depending on the situation

But people make bad business decisions all the time for a variety of stupid reasons. I doubt any of the criticism of, say, that restaurant that kicked out Sarah Sanders was motivated by a sincere concern for the well being of the owners bottom line. So I don't think that's really an issue.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby corplinx » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:05 pm

I love that Democrats are now calling for an Apartheid where voting wrong makes you a lower caste.

I think that's a winning campaign strategy.

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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:08 pm

I also doubt that criticism of this practice as damaging to Democrat election chances comes from a sincere desire to see more Democrats win office
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Nyarlathotep » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:09 pm

corplinx wrote:I love that Democrats are now calling for an Apartheid where voting wrong makes you a lower caste.

I think that's a winning campaign strategy.


Certainly seems to have worked for the Republicans. The only difference is that the Dems seem to have actually gotten some traction in thier efforts
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:09 pm

The Democrats have in effect written off "swing voters" and are relying on their opposition simply dying off.
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Re: Shunning as a form of ideological social pressure. It works for authoritarian religious cults it ought to work for .

Postby xouper » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:16 pm

corplinx wrote:I love that Democrats are now calling for an Apartheid where voting wrong makes you a lower caste.

I think that's a winning campaign strategy.
Nyarlathotep wrote:Certainly seems to have worked for the Republicans.


Evidences please, Nyarl?

I call BS. But I am willing to be persuaded otherwise given reasonable evidences.


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