Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

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Abdul Alhazred
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 27, 2018 3:59 pm

Nyarlathotep wrote:What point did I miss?
While unleashing mobs on people may not be new to all of American history, it hasn't been mainstream politics in my lifetime until recently.

Never mind the alleged "good old days". It really is different from less than a year ago.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:34 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
While unleashing mobs on people may not be new to all of American history, it hasn't been mainstream politics in my lifetime.
That's most of the problem.

The hostility towards social justice ignores that the reason social justice is a good thing has nothing to do with existential notions of fairness. Social justice is about preventing, in the long run, violent uprising. History is somewhat clear on this point.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:38 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
While unleashing mobs on people may not be new to all of American history, it hasn't been mainstream politics in my lifetime.
That's most of the problem.

The hostility towards social justice ignores that the reason social justice is a good thing has nothing to do with existential notions of fairness. Social justice is about preventing, in the long run, violent uprising. History is somewhat clear on this point.
History is more clear on using social justice as an excuse for gaining authoritarian, totalitarian, and dictatorial powers.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:02 pm

The expression "social justice" whatever it may have meant at one time, perhaps as RCC is using it, has nothing to do with any existing political movement.

It is a term of art meaning "group revenge", usually promoted by people who are not part of the aggrieved group.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:07 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The expression "social justice" whatever it may have meant at one time, perhaps as RCC is using it, has nothing to do with any existing political movement.

It is a term of art meaning "group revenge", usually promoted by people who are not part of the aggrieved group.
My point probably would have better been expressed differently. Historically, causes tend to get hijacked by warlords when sufficient power vacuum is established.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:12 pm

Grammatron wrote:My point probably would have better been expressed differently. Historically, causes tend to get hijacked by warlords when sufficient power vacuum is established.
This is absolutely correct.

But when it comes to "social justice" in particular there is also a post-modernist ideological thing among the non-warlord types.

Which helps the warlords, but argumentum ad "playing into the hands of" is a logically weak one.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:24 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Grammatron wrote:My point probably would have better been expressed differently. Historically, causes tend to get hijacked by warlords when sufficient power vacuum is established.
This is absolutely correct.

But when it comes to "social justice" in particular there is also a post-modernist ideological thing among the non-warlord types.

Which helps the warlords, but argumentum ad "playing into the hands of" is a logically weak one.
I just don't see realistic conditions for a successful revolution from the current government opposition.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The expression "social justice" whatever it may have meant at one time, perhaps as RCC is using it, has nothing to do with any existing political movement.

It is a term of art meaning "group revenge", usually promoted by people who are not part of the aggrieved group.

Pretty much every argument against today's so called SJWs were made against the civil rights activists of the 60s and the labor leaders during the labor wars. Nothing new under the sun.

That last sentence is an awesome example. Outside agitators, etc. The classics are classic for a reason.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:37 pm

Grammatron wrote:
I just don't see realistic conditions for a successful revolution from the current government opposition.
No need for one. Demographics will put the current opposition in power sooner or later. The danger lies in just how far some people are willing to go to prevent it.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Grammatron » Thu Jun 28, 2018 7:59 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
I just don't see realistic conditions for a successful revolution from the current government opposition.
No need for one. Demographics will put the current opposition in power sooner or later. The danger lies in just how far some people are willing to go to prevent it.
Only if it's assumed certain demographics always will vote a certain way.

Further, the recent POTUS election and the recent NY congressional election show that one has to campaign to actually win, even if demographics are there to support you.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:34 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:Pretty much every argument against today's so called SJWs were made against the civil rights activists of the 60s and the labor leaders during the labor wars.
Which is not evidences that they are similar.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:21 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Pretty much every argument against today's so called SJWs were made against the civil rights activists of the 60s and the labor leaders during the labor wars.
Which is not evidences that they are similar.
Inductive arguments can be evidence for a proposition. Even so, the only variable is the quality of the social justice point at issue. That the standard anti-progress arguments are bullshit is constant.

PETA is a SWJ type thing that is horseshit. There are others.

However, that those backing PETA aren't themselves animals (as opposed to human) is not a valid criticism.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by ed » Fri Jun 29, 2018 1:45 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Pretty much every argument against today's so called SJWs were made against the civil rights activists of the 60s and the labor leaders during the labor wars.
Which is not evidences that they are similar.
Inductive arguments can be evidence for a proposition. Even so, the only variable is the quality of the social justice point at issue. That the standard anti-progress arguments are bullshit is constant.
The quality of the issues is a key point. Civil rights activists (CRA) back in the day espoused issues and ideals that were venerable. Today, the issues seem to be a characture, and as such derided, or or less, from all sides. There is nothing really coherent about the principles behind today's issues except, perhaps, that entitled white kids need something to do.

If anything, today's SJW will be remembered as the underground auxiliary that got Trump a second term.

As far the the notion of "progress" ... goodness, my fingers itch to reach for my Browning ...(1)
Are you familiar with Whig History? This is a manifestation of that sad, discredited mode of thought. It is an interesting area for discussion though.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by WildCat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:02 am

RCC: Act II wrote:The hostility towards social justice ignores that the reason social justice is a good thing has nothing to do with existential notions of fairness. Social justice is about preventing, in the long run, violent uprising. History is somewhat clear on this point.
History is very clear that when the SJWs sniff power they slaughter millions and open gulags and re-education camps. Mao was a SJW. So was Pol Pot, Stalin, and even Hitler. Fuck the SJWs, fuck them all. They are a cancer on civilized society.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by WildCat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:05 am

RCC: Act II wrote:No need for one. Demographics will put the current opposition in power sooner or later. The danger lies in just how far some people are willing to go to prevent it.
You are a racist of the worst sort if you assume race and ethnicity determine political views. Seriously what the fucking fuck? That's what Hitler thought.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:10 am

ed wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:Pretty much every argument against today's so called SJWs were made against the civil rights activists of the 60s and the labor leaders during the labor wars.
Which is not evidences that they are similar.
Inductive arguments can be evidence for a proposition. Even so, the only variable is the quality of the social justice point at issue. That the standard anti-progress arguments are bullshit is constant.
The quality of the issues is a key point. Civil rights activists (CRA) back in the day espoused issues and ideals that were venerable.
What were these exactly?

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by WildCat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:16 am

RCC: Act II wrote:What were these exactly?
Real issues, not imaginary ones like rage over high school boys who identify as girls not being allowed to shower with high school girls in the high school locker room.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:39 am

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:No need for one. Demographics will put the current opposition in power sooner or later. The danger lies in just how far some people are willing to go to prevent it.
You are a racist of the worst sort if you assume race and ethnicity determine political views. Seriously what the fucking fuck? That's what Hitler thought.
Demographics are descriptive, you idiot. They describe, not cause.

When those descriptive trends show a pattern, people do this math stuff and can start to predict human behavior based on a myriad of factors.

If guessing that pandering to white supremacists will be less viable when white people eventually become a minority is racism, then, ok I guess. Maybe enough people of color will buy into white nationalism because reasons and that won't be the case. I'm gonna doubt it.

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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by WildCat » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:40 am

RCC: Act II wrote:
WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:No need for one. Demographics will put the current opposition in power sooner or later. The danger lies in just how far some people are willing to go to prevent it.
You are a racist of the worst sort if you assume race and ethnicity determine political views. Seriously what the fucking fuck? That's what Hitler thought.
Demographics are descriptive, you idiot. They describe, not cause.

When those descriptive trends show a pattern, people do this math stuff and can start to predict human behavior based on a myriad of factors.

If guessing that pandering to white supremacists will be less viable when white people eventually become a minority is racism, then, ok I guess. Maybe enough people of color will buy into white nationalism because reasons and that won't be the case. I'm gonna doubt it.
There's like 20,000 white nationalists in the entire country. They're completely irrelevant politically.

I almost forgot you're one of those lunatics who sees Nazis everywhere.
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Re: Remember the FEMA camps conspiracy theories?

Post by RCC: Act II » Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:41 am

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:What were these exactly?
Real issues, not imaginary ones like rage over high school boys who identify as girls not being allowed to shower with high school girls in the high school locker room.
Again, what issues were they? What were those in the civil rights movement agitating for exactly?