GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

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GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:53 pm

GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-senate ... d=52659681

Just in case anybody want to discuss this actual story rather than just rag on lefties who aren't even here about how they spin Obama stuff in general.

Opening gambit:

"Access" to the financial system is a rather ambiguous description. What Obama did was give them the same courtesy that a country not at war with us would have.

I can think of several reasons why this is a bad thing, though not outright illegal.



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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Mentat » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am

It was all part of B. Gazi's master plan.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Doctor X » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:18 am

The GOP Senate is, of course, racist.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gop-senate ... d=52659681

Just in case anybody want to discuss this actual story rather than just rag on lefties who aren't even here about how they spin Obama stuff in general.

Opening gambit:

"Access" to the financial system is a rather ambiguous description. What Obama did was give them the same courtesy that a country not at war with us would have.

I can think of several reasons why this is a bad thing, though not outright illegal.



Any takers? :notsure:


It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO. Lessening sanctions is not very meaningful when Iran has little or no access to the international banking system. International banks not directly restricted by the US sanctions are scared enough of US clout that they aren't willing to go against the sanctions denying Iran access. Allowing the Iranians a few transactions here or there for the purpose of business that is otherwise no longer under sanction just doesn't seem to be a big deal.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Grammatron » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:46 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Technically illegal is illegal with an extra word.
Lessening sanctions is not very meaningful when Iran has little or no access to the international banking system. International banks not directly restricted by the US sanctions are scared enough of US clout that they aren't willing to go against the sanctions denying Iran access. Allowing the Iranians a few transactions here or there for the purpose of business that is otherwise no longer under sanction just doesn't seem to be a big deal.


Having the executive branch attempt to circumvent legislative authority and try to deny it is a big deal IMO.
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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Doctor X » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:11 pm

Is different because Obama, Gram.

Why are you so racist?

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:46 pm

Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Technically illegal is illegal with an extra word.

Only to those with little understanding of how law works in the real world. Discretion is built into the system for a reason beyond assholes using it in bad faith.

Lessening sanctions is not very meaningful when Iran has little or no access to the international banking system. International banks not directly restricted by the US sanctions are scared enough of US clout that they aren't willing to go against the sanctions denying Iran access. Allowing the Iranians a few transactions here or there for the purpose of business that is otherwise no longer under sanction just doesn't seem to be a big deal.


Having the executive branch attempt to circumvent legislative authority and try to deny it is a big deal IMO.


Is this one of those principle things where we fan ourselves in indignation over an illegality without considering context? Those are boring.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Grammatron » Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:09 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Technically illegal is illegal with an extra word.

Only to those with little understanding of how law works in the real world. Discretion is built into the system for a reason beyond assholes using it in bad faith.

Lessening sanctions is not very meaningful when Iran has little or no access to the international banking system. International banks not directly restricted by the US sanctions are scared enough of US clout that they aren't willing to go against the sanctions denying Iran access. Allowing the Iranians a few transactions here or there for the purpose of business that is otherwise no longer under sanction just doesn't seem to be a big deal.


Having the executive branch attempt to circumvent legislative authority and try to deny it is a big deal IMO.


Is this one of those principle things where we fan ourselves in indignation over an illegality without considering context? Those are boring.


I get why you are being condescending to my snarky comments, and I also think that your position is reasonable. I just don't understand why you chose to not apply this reasonable view point to current administration.
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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby WildCat » Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:08 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Like being a little bit pregnant.
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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:19 pm

WildCat wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Like being a little bit pregnant.


Comparing two things that have nothing to do with each other isn't all that clever. Even so, you can be a little bit pregnant. This is reflected in abortion jurisprudence.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:24 pm

Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:It was something within the spirit of the deal. It was probably technically illegal but not a bad thing IMO.

Technically illegal is illegal with an extra word.

Only to those with little understanding of how law works in the real world. Discretion is built into the system for a reason beyond assholes using it in bad faith.

Lessening sanctions is not very meaningful when Iran has little or no access to the international banking system. International banks not directly restricted by the US sanctions are scared enough of US clout that they aren't willing to go against the sanctions denying Iran access. Allowing the Iranians a few transactions here or there for the purpose of business that is otherwise no longer under sanction just doesn't seem to be a big deal.


Having the executive branch attempt to circumvent legislative authority and try to deny it is a big deal IMO.


Is this one of those principle things where we fan ourselves in indignation over an illegality without considering context? Those are boring.


I get why you are being condescending to my snarky comments, and I also think that your position is reasonable. I just don't understand why you chose to not apply this reasonable view point to current administration.


I do. They wallow in bad faith to a degree that is absurd even in the context of politics, so it doesn't come up much.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Jun 20, 2018 2:10 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:I do. They wallow in bad faith to a degree that is absurd even in the context of politics, so it doesn't come up much.


Point taken in a general way, but there is no degree of wallowing in bad faith that is absurd in the context of politics.

That's what politics is. A wallowing in bad faith can-you-top-this contest.
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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby Grammatron » Wed Jun 20, 2018 5:51 pm

RCC: Act II wrote:I do.

I won't go through posts for any "gotcha!" quotes, but I will say that your exchanges with me and others on the topic of Trump has left me with the opposite conclusion. I suppose it could be me misunderstanding your posts.
They wallow in bad faith to a degree that is absurd even in the context of politics, so it doesn't come up much.

To me it just looks like regular politics.
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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:40 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:I do. They wallow in bad faith to a degree that is absurd even in the context of politics, so it doesn't come up much.


Point taken in a general way, but there is no degree of wallowing in bad faith that is absurd in the context of politics.

That's what politics is. A wallowing in bad faith can-you-top-this contest.


I'm not that cynical about politics. Sure, there is some level of bullshit one must spew in order to navigate any political arena, but it doesn't mean we have to be nihilists and just decide everyone that isn't pure is equally corrupt.

The latter impulse is when things really go to hell.

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Re: GOP Senate report says Obama officials gave Iran access to U.S. financial system

Postby RCC: Act II » Wed Jun 20, 2018 9:58 pm

Grammatron wrote:
RCC: Act II wrote:I do.

I won't go through posts for any "gotcha!" quotes, but I will say that your exchanges with me and others on the topic of Trump has left me with the opposite conclusion. I suppose it could be me misunderstanding your posts.

Probably not. I can't particularly remember any episode where I thought or posted anything of substance that was positive about Trump. Then again, I'm not sure I posted much about him at all. Mostly it has been arguing about legal stuff surrounding him where my opinion of the man himself isn't all that relevant.

That said, I think he's not worth cleaning up with a dishrag. He's peak nihilism, and anyone who stands with him is intellectually and morally bankrupt. I have plenty of friends in that category. If he manages to do something good, fine, whatever. A mark on the good side. Maybe he starts to begin to balance the ledger.

I'm not sure though. A broken clock is right twice a day, and I doubt Trump can rise to that level.


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