Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Grammatron » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:18 am

asthmatic camel wrote:Anyways, I'm all in favour of a free press and freedom of speech.

I am not, however, in favour of shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.
Probably not the best analogy to use for variety of reasons up to and including this phrase originating in a Supreme Court Case that dealt with abuse of power by the government to punish innocent people for speach.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/ar ... te/264449/
That's what "Tommy Robinson" was effectively doing. Inciting racial hatred when the perpetrators were already being tried and convicted.

Around 3% of the UK population are Muslims, the vast majority decent, hard-working people who benefit our society and economy enormously. Many are doctors and health care professionals.

I know for certain that they're just as disgusted by the grooming gangs as I am.
My understanding is that this was not an isolated case but a large scale problem going on for many years. Is that not correct or related? Serious question.

If it is correct then I am of the opinion that such a problem is no different with Catholic church rape scandal. I am sure many priests are decent and hard working people too but that rather misses the point.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Skeeve » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:16 am

asthmatic camel wrote:Anyways, I'm all in favour of a free press and freedom of speech.

I am not, however, in favour of shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.

That's what "Tommy Robinson" was effectively doing. Inciting racial hatred when the perpetrators were already being tried and convicted.

Around 3% of the UK population are Muslims "Asians," the vast majority decent, hard-working people who benefit our society and economy enormously. Many are doctors and health care professionals.

I know for certain that they're just as disgusted by the grooming gangs as I am.
FTFY

Seriously?
IF the Muslim "Asian" community is as disgusted by "the grooming gangs" as you are,
then how has this been going on for decades?

EXCLUSIVE: How UK Authorities Cover Up Child Abuse by Muslim Grooming Gangs ©.
In what has since been dubbed the "worst ever" child abuse scandal in British history, as many as 1,000 young local girls may have been groomed for sex by a 200-strong syndicate of British-Asian men. Victims were said to have been trafficked, drugged, beaten, raped and in some cases even murdered.
...
Many social workers and victims testified Telford police and council were unwilling, unhelpful and sometimes intentionally obstructive of their efforts to report and prosecute perpetrators.
...
However, for those who have been researching the grooming phenomenon in the UK for some time, the Telford exposures were hardly revelatory. Among them is Peter McLoughlin, author of the 2014 work Easy Meat, which delved into the issue of grooming gangs in forensic detail.

For years, Peter believed grooming gangs to be a "racist myth", perpetuated by far-right demagogues. However, his fundamental assumptions were challenged in 2009 when he met people who said their children had been abused in this manner like this. These individuals' immediate and extended families had many non-white members — reasoning they were unlikely to be racists, He began to dig deeper into the issue. What he found shocked him.

Peter notes one of the "defining features" of grooming is the ethnic/cultural homogeneity of the gangs, and the refusal of members of their community to speak out about or condemn their behaviour.
It sure seems the Muslim "Asian" community has been turning a blind eye to the "grooming gangs" in their midst.
Much like the Social services, police, and many in the lame-stream media were...for decades.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by ed » Sat Jun 16, 2018 11:34 am

The cynical use of the word "Asian" is clear evidence of conspiracy. The perps are not "Asian". Not by any stretch. This demonstrates that the elites/establishment/media are engaging in spin. Together. That is conspiracy.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:16 pm

asthmatic camel wrote: ... cricketing persuasion ...
Nope.

Not even the right shaped bat for a sexual metaphor. :mrgreen:
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 16, 2018 1:17 pm

Is is OK to shout "fire" in a crowded fire?
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Giz » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:26 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Is is OK to shout "fire" in a crowded fire?

Depends if there is a fire.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by WildCat » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:28 pm

ed wrote:The cynical use of the word "Asian" is clear evidence of conspiracy. The perps are not "Asian". Not by any stretch. This demonstrates that the elites/establishment/media are engaging in spin. Together. That is conspiracy.
I've noticed that Brits have a different connotation of "Asian" than Americans do. To Americans "Asian" means east Asian, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam etc. Apparently to Brits it means everyone east of Greece. Also it seems to me that "black" in the UK means everyone who isn't white. No one in the USA would call a Moroccan, for example, "black" but that seems the norm in the UK.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by ed » Sat Jun 16, 2018 2:55 pm

They're wrong.

Wankers.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by WildCat » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:53 pm

ed wrote:They're wrong.

Wankers.
That goes without saying.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 3:57 pm

Muslims come from all over. Mostly East of the Mediterranean, true. Most African nations are predominantly Muslim but you won't find any Brits calling their citizens Asian.

We have a plethora of derogatory terms for people of all origins here in Britland. I'm a Manc. Anyone from Liverpool is a Scouser, Welshmen are Taffies or Sheep-Shaggers, Scots are Jocks, Londoners are Cockney Wankers. And we're all natives!

Black? It's become a catch-all phrase for anyone who isn't very obviously of white European ancestry. Coloured, mixed-race and a shed-load of other terms are available for those who do not look like WASPS.
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:10 pm

According to what you told us before, you guys even call Turks "Spics". :roll:

At least we Americans have proper precision when it comes to spewing racial hatred. :notsure:
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:16 pm

Nope. Spics are Spaniards or people of Hispanic descent.

Eastern Asians are Chinks.

Those from the former Raj, India, Pakistan and Bangladesh are generally called Asians.
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Grammatron » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:24 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Is is OK to shout "fire" in a crowded fire?
It's not illegal.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Skeeve » Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:28 pm

WildCat wrote:
ed wrote:The cynical use of the word "Asian" is clear evidence of conspiracy. The perps are not "Asian". Not by any stretch. This demonstrates that the elites/establishment/media are engaging in spin. Together. That is conspiracy.
I've noticed that Brits have a different connotation of "Asian" than Americans do. To Americans "Asian" means east Asian, China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam etc. Apparently to Brits it means everyone east of Greece. Also it seems to me that "black" in the UK means everyone who isn't white. No one in the USA would call a Moroccan, for example, "black" but that seems the norm in the UK.
I suppose technically the middle east, India and Pakistan are in what we refer to as "Asia minor."
Be that as it may, the refusal to identify these "Asian grooming gangs© "
as majority Pakistani or majority Islam is an obfuscation, IMHO.

I think it is most likely driven by the fear of (white UK folks) being labeled as (God forbid) "racist!"
Just maybe that's what may have happened to Tommy Robinson...but I digress.

We have to stop saying ‘Asian grooming gangs’
Last month, two decisions were made by IPSO, the body which regulates most of the British press, in relation to the use of the word ‘Asians’. A complaint against The Sunday Times was upheld. IPSO ruled that the paper had published an inaccurate headline when it claimed that ‘Asians make up 80 per cent of child groomers’. The Muslim Council of Britain’s Miqdaad Versi called for a correction to clarify that the 80 per cent referred specifically to grooming ‘gangs’, not all child groomers.

But who are we referring to when we use the word ‘Asians’? The other complaint sought to address this issue. It was lodged by Sikh, Hindu and Pakistani-Christian groups, concerned about the liberal use of the word ‘Asian’ in the Sunday Mirror’s investigation into child-grooming gangs in Telford. The Sunday Mirror exposed ‘epidemic’ levels of child sexual exploitation in the northern town, where it was suggested that up to 1,000 girls, some as young as 11, had been abused by Asian men.
Well corplinx, it does indeed look as if some Asian folks in the UK are pissed about that, and trying to do something.
But the term ‘Asian’ is far too broad and smears innocent communities, said the complainants. They added that many Asian girls had been targeted by grooming gangs, too. But IPSO rejected their complaint. The regulator ruled that it was not ‘inaccurate to say the men were “mainly Asian”’. Nor did it give a ‘significantly misleading impression’, it said. Presumably, the editors’ code would also consider it accurate to describe these men as ‘mammals’, ‘humans’ or even ‘sentient beings’.
Okay, so now we know where the accepted term ("Asian grooming gangs© ") came from...some fucking Bureaucrats. It figures.
Joking aside, the complainants were right. The media’s use of ‘Asian’ to describe grooming gangs not only masks the ethno-religious identity of the perpetrators – it also throws Sikhs, Hindus, Pakistani-Christians and every other Asian under the bus. Gangs of Indian, Japanese and Korean men are not rampaging across Britain’s towns and cities, sexually abusing underage white girls. The men doing so are predominantly of Pakistani-Muslim heritage.

There is a great deal of evidence to support this. A 2017 Quilliam report, which researched the cases of 58 grooming gangs since 2005, found that 84 per cent of grooming-gang members are (South) Asian and the majority were ‘of Pakistani origin, with Muslim heritage’. The report suggests this background influenced the crimes these men committed against mainly young, white girls. In 2012, Judge Gerald Clifton foreshadowed this finding when sentencing nine members of a Rochdale grooming gang. He said they had treated their victims as ‘worthless and beyond all respect’, partly because they were not of the offenders’ ‘community or religion’. Recently, a Rotherham grooming-gang survivor described how she was persecuted for being ‘a white slag’ because she was non-Muslim.
Ah and here we come to it.
Fuckin' Muslims just doing shit the Koran allows...against Kafirs!

Example: Islamic Sanctification of Rape and the Horror of Muslim Rape
...
In Islamic perspectives, Adil Rashid is a good, moral, devout Muslim and he was only following the Islamic cultural ethos, shaped by the divine Islamic teachings of raping kafir women. In the eyes of Islamic God, Kafir women are no better than lollipops, dropped on the ground for Muslim pick and lick. As will be shown, Adil Rashid understands the Quran well and has followed in the footsteps of Muhammad, who was a child molester, rapist, murderer, terrorist, torturer, slaver.
I guess old Adil had a "sexual emergency" or something...

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Doctor X » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:42 pm

asthmatic camel wrote:I am not, however, in favour of shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre.
Funnily enough, that phrase is ironic since the Associate Supreme Court Justice who made it was wrong. He was wrong on many matters, but he "looked the part," and was "quotable," so people quote him despite the fact he ended up losing. His analogy has nothing to do with the First Amendment for Various Fascinating Reasons.

I believe I mentioned Cameron's first PMQT where he and Hey, Stand Here While We Figure Out What Idiot Wants to Lead Labour discussed the very issue of naming suspects. Well, here it is:



go to ~5:20 - ~8:21 to get to the issue.

That is the problem: how do you protect the innocent while sending the guilty where they belong?

Now the Cunt you mention:
That's what "Tommy Robinson" was effectively doing. Inciting racial hatred when the perpetrators were already being tried and convicted.
yeah.

And his webpage is an unwelcome introduction to such.

The USA!USA!USA! is use to defendants being public to detract from You Lot trying people in your Star Pantries or something. They are also use to accusers becoming public as well. There is no "good solution," because as the debate between "Dodgy Dave" and "Harriet the Harpy" demonstrates, you cannot know in all cases who is and is not guilty. USA!USA!Freedom can point to the infamous Vanderbilt Lacrosse Team fiasco, in which the prosecutor made up crap to get reëlected in a plan worthy of a Campy 60s Batman or Dr. Who villain. What saved the wrongfully accused was . . .

. . .

. . .

. . .

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:50 pm

Anyways, I've had enough of this stuff, so here's a toon for Doctor X. I wouldn't want him to feel discriminated against for not being a Jobby Jabber, (as the Scots have it.) Or a Cockpipe cosmonaut.

Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:57 pm

asthmatic camel wrote: ... a Cockpipe cosmonaut ...
Same thing as a left footer? :?
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by asthmatic camel » Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:03 pm

Yep. :)

Think about it, it's not too difficult. :D
Shit happens. The older you get, the more often shit happens. So you have to try not to give a shit even when you do. Because, if you give too many shits, you've created your own shit creek and there's no way out other than swimming through the shit. Oh, and fuck.

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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:10 pm

I knew it! :BigGrin3:
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Re: Tommy Robinson & UK 'grooming gangs.'

Post by Skeeve » Sat Jun 16, 2018 7:27 pm

Okay, I thought I would check out Tommy's site: http://www.tommyrobinson.com and see what was there that was soooooooo racist.

Here is a fairly well produced (slightly hyperbolic IMHO - but I don't live in Europe so..) video.



Reminds me a bit of that Trump campaign commercial, (the one with Michael Moore in the background)
"Trump's election is going to be the biggest FUCK YOU ever recorded in history, And it will feel GOOD." That one, anyway...

What ever else the Tommy Robinson video is, it does not seem particularly racist IMHO,
YMMV...
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