The First Mueller Anniversary

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Tue May 15, 2018 12:01 pm

One year and yadda ya get? 16 tons (of bullshit) and deeper in debt.

Sorry ...

Yes, Mueller indited some Russkies. What is going on with that? Well, ueller figured that he could get some headlines to the effect he was actually "doing something" with little risk of actually having to prove his allegations.

SURPRISE!!!!!!
WASHINGTON — One of the Russian companies indicted for what special counsel Robert Mueller alleged was a wide-ranging scheme to undermine the 2016 elections pleaded not guilty on Wednesday and said through its lawyer that it planned to contest the charges.
Holy shit!!!
Mueller's office charged in February that 13 Russian nationals and three businesses sought to meddle in the election election by posing as Americans, launching social media campaigns to pick at Americans' political division and staging rallies. The operation, prosecutors said, was aimed at "spreading distrust toward the candidates and the political system," and in particular at "supporting the presidential campaign of then-candidate Donald J. Trump."
Gotta ask minds greater than mine, does not everyone here have protection of the constitution? Is there not freedom of speech? :lol: :lol:
None of the charges had been expected to go anywhere because the companies and all of the individuals charged over the scheme are Russian. But on Wednesday, one of them, Concord Management and Consulting, LLC, dispatched a pair of lawyers to federal court in Washington to plead not guilty to the charges. One of the lawyers, Eric Dubelier, said Concord would "exercise our right to a speedy trial."
One can only smirk smile
The two other companies and 13 individuals indicted along with Concord did not appear. Mueller's office has said in court filings that the Russian government has not cooperated with their efforts to serve summonses on them. "The government would be thrilled if they were here," one of Mueller's prosecutors, Jeannie Rhee, said on Wednesday.
Bullshit

[snip]
Mueller's office said in a court filing last week that Concord's lawyers had already demanded that prosecutors turn over "sensitive intelligence gathering, national security, and foreign affairs information," including details on electronic surveillance of the company and its employees.
:doglaugh: :doglaugh:
Partly in light of those demands, prosecutors asked the court to put off Concord's arraignment. U.S. District Court Judge Dabney Friedrich denied the request without explanation.
:roll:

[snip]
Mueller's office said the Russian campaign was clear about its objectives. In one internal memo prosecutors said the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency told its employees to "use any opportunity to criticize Hillary and the rest (except Sanders and Trump - we support them)." In another, they said it is "imperative to intensify criticizing Hillary Clinton."
I think we have seen examples of "Intensive criticism" of Hillary.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 594454002/

Even the Time is reporting on this. In their story, they make this point:
The legal burden to gain access to grand jury materials, such as testimony and jury instructions, is very high because such information is carefully safeguarded to protect the integrity of investigations.
https://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2018/05 ... ncord.html

A little secrecy can't hurt.

This thing is appearing increasingly rotten to me. And while I am no fan of Trump and while I think the government being shut down is probably a net good, I also think that there are things going on that are sorta serious and that this bullshit is a diversion that is serving no good whatsoever.

To summarize: Mueller indites a bunch of americans for lying. The Russians he scares up fight back and am I willing to make a wager with anyone here that nothing (0, zip, nada) will ever go to court.

Let me remind you all that there is no crime of "collusion".

And, upon introspection, the thing that really annoyed me is the wanton expenditure of many that is not theirs, it is ours, and the fuckers spend it without a care because they really are entitled fuckers, at the base of it, and they think that money is limitless.


.
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 15, 2018 12:24 pm

Not protected by the First Amendment:

Anything morally equivalent to shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater -- hate speech, anything paid for by a corporation , Russians, anti-Hillaryites, etc.

Kapeesh?
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 4:03 pm

I don't think that's it at all...

Didn't the primary charges concern wire fraud? And not of the "oops, these Federal laws are complicated!" variety.
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Tue May 15, 2018 4:50 pm

gnome wrote:I don't think that's it at all...

Didn't the primary charges concern wire fraud? And not of the "oops, these Federal laws are complicated!" variety.
Are there indictments for wire fraud? No idea.

Can you elucidate?

Here is a story on the russkis
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/02 ... tions.html

Embarrassing. For Mueller I mean.

If you had an employee with all the power that mueller has and this is what you were presented with after a year, what would you as an employer say? Helluva job, Brownie?

I'll tell you what I would do. It would not have gotten to a year. The moment he indited those guys for "lieing" I would have hauled his ass in and asked him what the fuck he was doing. Was he going to ticket them for jaywalking next?

collusion my pink ass :x
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 15, 2018 5:38 pm

gnome wrote:I don't think that's it at all...

Didn't the primary charges concern wire fraud? And not of the "oops, these Federal laws are complicated!" variety.
Seems like a fishing expedition without end.

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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 5:45 pm

Sorry, not wire fraud. Identity theft.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/37425 ... terference

The business about "interfering with the election" is not the criminal part, just the motive. The criminal part is identity theft. So not a 1st amendment thing. You can use free speech without illegally appropriating someone's identity.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Skeeve » Tue May 15, 2018 7:21 pm

Robert Mueller acting like J. Edgar Hoover and the Stasi
History repeats itself. J. Edgar Hoover was director of the Bureau of Investigation, subsequently the FBI, from 1924 to 1972 — a total of 48 years. He had 50 percent of the agents assigned to investigative duties, building charges against U.S. citizens. He was feared by presidents to janitors because of the files he kept under his control. He had damning information on approximately 430,000 American citizens. The East German Stasi had files on about 300,000 people. Amazing.

If this sounds familiar, then you may be looking at Robert Mueller and his neverending efforts to build a criminal case against Donald Trump. I am so surprised and disgusted that U.S. citizens would approve of an anarchist prosecutor such as Mr. Mueller and his co-conspirators.

We have enough enemies outside of our borders. Our politicians have affirmed an oath of allegiance to protect “against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Looks as if that does not mean much to the holdovers from the Obama regime.
Interesting, however compaired to Hoover, Mueller is a piker (give him an A - for effort asshole though!)
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Witness » Tue May 15, 2018 8:09 pm

Image

:mrgreen:

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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 8:33 pm

Skeeve wrote:
holdovers from the Obama regime.
Interesting, however compaired to Hoover, Mueller is a piker (give him an A - for effort asshole though!)
Do they know he was appointed head of the FBI by George W?

Tough sell as a partisan witch hunt.

This does not exclude it from being a witch hunt at all, but hardly a Democratic Party thing.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Tue May 15, 2018 8:48 pm

gnome wrote:Sorry, not wire fraud. Identity theft.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/37425 ... terference

The business about "interfering with the election" is not the criminal part, just the motive. The criminal part is identity theft. So not a 1st amendment thing. You can use free speech without illegally appropriating someone's identity.

OK. So this is the impact of the vast russian conspiracy? Identity theft?

Really? And this is more important than the millions of illegals who do this every day?

Seems our priorities are askew.
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Wed May 16, 2018 10:22 am

I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by WildCat » Wed May 16, 2018 11:58 am

gnome wrote:Sorry, not wire fraud. Identity theft.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/37425 ... terference

The business about "interfering with the election" is not the criminal part, just the motive. The criminal part is identity theft. So not a 1st amendment thing. You can use free speech without illegally appropriating someone's identity.
Millions of illegals use identity theft and the feds don't care.
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by WildCat » Wed May 16, 2018 12:00 pm

gnome wrote:I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
Should Trevor Noah be allowed to host a cable TV show where he tries to influence US politics?
Do you have questions about God?

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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Mentat » Wed May 16, 2018 12:20 pm

The Russians have a lot of practice covering their tracks. Who knew?
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Wed May 16, 2018 12:34 pm

gnome wrote:I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
Jeeze ....

The law is the law. What you are describing sounds uncomfortably close to the legal principles in the Third Reich where investigations, absent a crime, were ongoing and where, if a person were released from custody, they could be scooped up again because of the larger, undefined, impact of their crime.

I don't dismiss interference in our elections any more than I dismiss the impact of people participating who should not be. If there is evidence of a crime, it should be investigated. Saying "russians" as license to have an open ended exploration of everything about everybody Muller feels should be investigated stinks. That is nazi behavior.

And, I submit, few could emerge from such an investigation unscathed, unindited and financially intact.
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Mentat » Wed May 16, 2018 12:46 pm

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
Jeeze ....

The law is the law. What you are describing sounds uncomfortably close to the legal principles in the Third Reich where investigations, absent a crime, were ongoing and where, if a person were released from custody, they could be scooped up again because of the larger, undefined, impact of their crime.

I don't dismiss interference in our elections any more than I dismiss the impact of people participating who should not be. If there is evidence of a crime, it should be investigated. Saying "russians" as license to have an open ended exploration of everything about everybody Muller feels should be investigated stinks. That is nazi behavior.

And, I submit, few could emerge from such an investigation unscathed, unindited and financially intact.

So you're all for it then. Looks like we're in agreement.
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by ed » Wed May 16, 2018 1:45 pm

huh?
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed May 16, 2018 2:55 pm

Mentat wrote:The Russians have a lot of practice covering their tracks. Who knew?
In short, the Russian allegations are true because they are non-disprovable. :lmao:
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by gnome » Wed May 16, 2018 5:29 pm

WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
Should Trevor Noah be allowed to host a cable TV show where he tries to influence US politics?
If he's doing so in an otherwise legal manner, certainly.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: The First Mueller Anniversary

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed May 16, 2018 5:36 pm

gnome wrote:
WildCat wrote:
gnome wrote:I don't think the impact of a crime can be reduced only to which law was violated. There is a fair discussion to be had in how significant foreign interference was in our election or in our political culture. That is not settled by dismissing it because some of it was done by "only" identity theft.

Also, are there not occasionally good reasons for a special investigation to start with the small as part of checking for a larger problem?
Should Trevor Noah be allowed to host a cable TV show where he tries to influence US politics?
If he's doing so in an otherwise legal manner, certainly.
So as long as he doesn't play grab ass, right? :P
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