Has he been impeached yet?

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
User avatar
ed
Posts: 33059
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 440 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by ed » Tue May 15, 2018 11:39 am

Any of you lot actually read the scope of Mueller's appointment? Given that we are approaching the one year anniversary I thought it might be time to.
ScreenShot385.jpg
https://www.justice.gov/opa/press-relea ... 1/download

For added hilarity, I am also posting 28 CFR 600.4, the other federal law alluded to in the appointment.
§ 600.4 Jurisdiction.

(a)Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

(b)Additional jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel concludes that additional jurisdiction beyond that specified in his or her original jurisdiction is necessary in order to fully investigate and resolve the matters assigned, or to investigate new matters that come to light in the course of his or her investigation, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General, who will determine whether to include the additional matters within the Special Counsel's jurisdiction or assign them elsewhere.

(c)Civil and administrative jurisdiction. If in the course of his or her investigation the Special Counsel determines that administrative remedies, civil sanctions or other governmental action outside the criminal justice system might be appropriate, he or she shall consult with the Attorney General with respect to the appropriate component to take any necessary action. A Special Counsel shall not have civil or administrative authority unless specifically granted such jurisdiction by the Attorney General.
I would never, ever give anyone that kind of power. But, hey, who am I? Just a citizen.

Meanwhile, What about collusion?

I'm breaking this up into another thread.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22084
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 3:05 pm

ed wrote:It was sorta like legislating from the bench by a judge. Given the lack of popularity of the agreement and the fact that the branch of government charged with making treaty s probably would not have passed it and the fact that most citizens were against it, Obama engaged in overreach to implement it.

Then again, if our betters think that it is in our best interest, who are we to question.

Query: was there anything binding in that agreement or was the impact to return money to Iran, no strings, and then open up Iran for European investment?

In other words, what precisely did we get out of it?
I would think that, absent a ratified treaty, such an agreement is within the president's scope of power to make foreign policy in general. That does bring up a question--who had the authority to remove sanctions, or turn over the frozen assets? If it was within the president's authority, I don't see where it violated anything. It is then an agreement between leaders instead of a treaty. It wouldn't be illegal for either side to break it, but they would have to consider that the other nation's policy stance may then change. That all sounds above board.

I can look up what the terms were for Iran... do you not have a summary?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Giz
Posts: 1145
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2004 5:07 pm
Location: UK
Has thanked: 145 times
Been thanked: 248 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Giz » Tue May 15, 2018 3:10 pm

gnome wrote:
ed wrote:
I would think that, absent a ratified treaty, such an agreement is within the president's scope of power to make foreign policy in general.
You’d think so, but there is probably a judge in Hawaii who disagrees.

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22084
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 5:54 pm

Was the Hawaii decision based on separation of powers? I didn't think so--I thought it pertained to a different constitutional issue.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Doctor X
Posts: 67545
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 8:09 pm
Title: Collective Messiah
Location: Your Mom
Has thanked: 3393 times
Been thanked: 2157 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Doctor X » Tue May 15, 2018 6:13 pm

It was political and, as usually is the case, failed miserably on examination.

Nevertheless, this non-treaty does not fall under judicial review.

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X3!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!
AL Champions!!!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22084
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 6:28 pm

Cynically, everything's political, but they have to cite some legal justification, don't they? Except in cases where they are rejecting the case entirely.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70830
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3176 times
Been thanked: 1182 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 15, 2018 6:38 pm

The Democrat point of view is that presidential elections they don't win are ipso facto invalid.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22084
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by gnome » Tue May 15, 2018 8:36 pm

So, basically the same as the Republican point of view.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33469
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1720 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 15, 2018 9:23 pm

Yes

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70830
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3176 times
Been thanked: 1182 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 15, 2018 11:39 pm

gnome wrote:So, basically the same as the Republican point of view.
Not really. The whole "Russian" thing proves that.

They may have seemed morally equivalent in past years, but not after the 2016 election.

Obama tried to start WWIII with the Russians to prevent Trump from taking office.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33469
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1720 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 15, 2018 11:41 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
gnome wrote:So, basically the same as the Republican point of view.
Not really. The whole "Russian" thing proves that.

They may have seemed morally equivalent in past years, but not after the 2016 election.

Obama tried to start WWIII with the Russians to prevent Trump from taking office.
You're right if we ignore the campaign for voter IDs

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70830
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3176 times
Been thanked: 1182 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 15, 2018 11:43 pm

What is wrong with voter IDs?

Racist, right? :roll:
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33469
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1720 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 15, 2018 11:55 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What is wrong with voter IDs?

Racist, right? :roll:
The republican point of view is that absent of voter id laws the election can't be valid with certainty

User avatar
Abdul Alhazred
Posts: 70830
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2004 1:33 pm
Title: Yes, that one.
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 3176 times
Been thanked: 1182 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed May 16, 2018 12:25 am

Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:What is wrong with voter IDs?

Racist, right? :roll:
The republican point of view is that absent of voter id laws the election can't be valid with certainty
They did not try to get Obama impeached over it.
Image "If I turn in a sicko, will I get a reward?"

"Yes! A BIG REWARD!" ====> Click here to turn in a sicko
Any man writes a mission statement spends a night in the box.
-- our mission statement plappendale

User avatar
Nyarlathotep
Posts: 47574
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 2004 2:50 pm
Has thanked: 773 times
Been thanked: 1426 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Nyarlathotep » Wed May 16, 2018 1:12 am

No, they just spent eight years trying to prove he was Kenyan and thus never eligible to be president in the first place.

Voter ID laws are more a way to keep local Republicans in power. That’s why they do things like put these laws into place then shut down DMVs in Democratic districts
Bango Skank Awaits The Crimson King!

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33059
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 440 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by ed » Wed May 16, 2018 1:17 am

I never understood why one would not want to be sure that a person who votes is eligible to vote. What earthly reason could there be for that?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
gnome
Posts: 22084
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2004 12:40 am
Location: New Port Richey, FL
Has thanked: 362 times
Been thanked: 394 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by gnome » Wed May 16, 2018 1:19 am

That's the surface justification. What they have actually been doing is using that premise to add red tape to completely legitimate voters that they don't want voting. In NC they were found to have intentionally targeted racial groups, for example.
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

User avatar
Grammatron
Posts: 33469
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 1:21 am
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Been thanked: 1720 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Grammatron » Wed May 16, 2018 1:31 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:What is wrong with voter IDs?

Racist, right? :roll:
The republican point of view is that absent of voter id laws the election can't be valid with certainty
They did not try to get Obama impeached over it.
The point that you keep missing is that both sides do the same shit but using different tools.

User avatar
ed
Posts: 33059
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:52 pm
Title: Rhino of the Florida swamp
Has thanked: 440 times
Been thanked: 754 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by ed » Wed May 16, 2018 1:39 am

gnome wrote:That's the surface justification. What they have actually been doing is using that premise to add red tape to completely legitimate voters that they don't want voting. In NC they were found to have intentionally targeted racial groups, for example.
That said, why would you not want to assure the validity of voters?
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

User avatar
Witness
Posts: 16497
Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:50 pm
Has thanked: 2002 times
Been thanked: 2730 times

Re: Has he been impeached yet?

Post by Witness » Wed May 16, 2018 1:54 am

ed wrote:
gnome wrote:That's the surface justification. What they have actually been doing is using that premise to add red tape to completely legitimate voters that they don't want voting. In NC they were found to have intentionally targeted racial groups, for example.
That said, why would you not want to assure the validity of voters?
I'd be interested too: that's something I don't get about Murica… :P