China: The Celestial Thread

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China: The Celestial Thread

Post by ed » Sat May 05, 2018 10:32 am

This thread is to explore, and to raise awareness of some dangerous fuckers.

China’s economic progress over the past century has been phenomenal, lifting hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty. So when the Chinese government offers to share its experience in development — a prominent theme in its official speeches and documents — it should be taken seriously.

But the historical echoes are worrisome. Already, Sri Lanka, unable to pay back the $8 billion it owes Chinese state-owned enterprises for building major infrastructure on its territory, has agreed to lease its port in Hambantota to China for 99 years. That is precisely the term for which another strategic port, Hong Kong, was leased by the Qing to the British in circumstances that epitomize colonialism.

So one wonders: Is China presenting a new model of development to a world that could use one, or is One Belt, One Road itself the new colonialism?

Because these rail and other projects require security, they extend the Chinese government’s political reach into Central Asia, Pakistan and the Middle East. And as Beijing turns the South China Sea into a vast game of Go, its new ports in Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and, potentially, the Maldives start to look like still more playing tokens.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/04/opin ... ght-region
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by ed » Sat May 05, 2018 10:34 am

Little Marco made some good points in an op-ed in the Times:
When China acceded to the World Trade Organization in 2001, the United States supported that decision for two reasons: We hoped to promote better access to China’s consumer markets for American companies immediately and, eventually, political liberalization within China.

Neither has materialized. While the Chinese people have pushed for a somewhat more open society, the Chinese government is becoming even more autocratic. And since peaking in 2003, imports of manufactured goods into China as a share of gross domestic product have steadily declined.

Instead of opening its doors to United States exports, China has thwarted competition at every turn. It has advanced Chinese state-planned businesses by stealing American intellectual property and has pressured foreign companies that want to enter the Chinese market to agree to “joint ventures” that facilitate theft and espionage. China has also bought up American assets to inflate the value of the dollar and make American exports more expensive. China has also tried to tilt the playing field in the United States by manipulating its currency, among other tactics.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/opin ... riffs.html

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by sparks » Sat May 05, 2018 4:37 pm

It appears that they are attempting to do to others exactly what was done to them earlier. They have not learned from their own history.

This will be interesting and instructive.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Witness » Sun May 06, 2018 2:38 am

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Helping out… 8)

From last year:
NYT wrote:Chastised by E.U., a Resentful Greece Embraces China’s Cash and Interests

ATHENS — After years of struggling under austerity imposed by European partners and a chilly shoulder from the United States, Greece has embraced the advances of China, its most ardent and geopolitically ambitious suitor.

While Europe was busy squeezing Greece, the Chinese swooped in with bucket-loads of investments that have begun to pay off, not only economically but also by apparently giving China a political foothold in Greece, and by extension, in Europe.

Last summer, Greece helped stop the European Union from issuing a unified statement against Chinese aggression in the South China Sea. This June, Athens prevented the bloc from condemning China’s human rights record. Days later it opposed tougher screening of Chinese investments in Europe.

Greece’s diplomatic stance hardly went unnoticed by its European partners or by the United States, all of which had previously worried that the country’s economic vulnerability might make it a ripe target for Russia, always eager to divide the bloc.

Instead, it is the Chinese who have become an increasingly powerful foreign player in Greece after years of assiduous courtship and checkbook diplomacy.

Among those initiatives, China plans to make the Greek port of Piraeus the “dragon head” of its vast “One Belt, One Road” project, a new Silk Road into Europe.
[…]
E.U. officials are concerned that China is buying silence on human rights issues and undermining the bloc’s ability to speak with one voice. Analysts say China targets smaller countries in need of cash, among them Spain, Portugal and others that suffered in the financial crisis. Hungary, where China is pledging to spend billions on a railway, also blocked the E.U. statement on the South China Sea.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/26/worl ... ipras.html

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Skeeve » Tue May 08, 2018 9:07 am

ed wrote:
...
We hoped to promote better access to China’s consumer markets for American companies immediately and, eventually, political liberalization within China.
They forgot about cheep labor...a nice place to off-shore to.
sparks wrote:It appears that they are attempting to do to others exactly what was done to them earlier. They have not learned from their own history.
Looks to me as if they have learned very well....
Then Skank Of America could start in...

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 08, 2018 12:10 pm

What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful commerce.
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by gnome » Tue May 08, 2018 12:31 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful commerce.
Those BASTARDS! Quick, what are our military options?
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 08, 2018 3:38 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful commerce.
Lol

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Rob Lister » Tue May 08, 2018 3:44 pm

It should be noted that (UN involvement withstanding), China has never warred with any nation that was not adjacent to their border, land or sea. They are so fucking stuck in a Risk board game that I think they can be easily defeated with a couple of good dice rolls.

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by ed » Tue May 08, 2018 4:08 pm

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 08, 2018 4:43 pm

Fu on that one ed.

The only Fu Manchu worth bothering about is Karloff.

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by gnome » Tue May 08, 2018 5:13 pm

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"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Giz » Tue May 08, 2018 5:21 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful commerce.
We are doing peaceful free commerce. They are doing ruthless amoral mercantilism.

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue May 08, 2018 5:39 pm

I amend my previous statement:
What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful free amoral commerce.

Better? :)
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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Grammatron » Tue May 08, 2018 5:49 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I amend my previous statement:
What China is doing is successfully competing at peaceful free amoral commerce.

Better? :)
I don't consider China moving its border on land and sea at the expense of its neighbors as peaceful.

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Re: China: The Celestial Thread

Post by Doctor X » Wed May 09, 2018 6:11 am

That is because you Culturally Appropriate, Gram.

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