Fuck it, legalize it all!

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:00 am

Cloverlief wrote:
xouper wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:Cars have other purposes than just killing. Guns do not.
That is factually incorrect.

Guns have several legitimate and lawful purposes that do not include killing people.

Fact: In the US, guns are used far more often for self defense than they are for killing people illegally.

Your claim that guns do not have any other purpose than just killing is total bunk.

Just because some people use guns unlawfully is not sufficient reason to take guns away from those who use guns for lawful purposes.
Guns one and only design is to be a weapon to kill efficiently. So, no it is not factually incorrect.
This is the problem with discussing this topic with the ignorant
Image
What would you call that? A killing machine. Please learn a bit about the topic before spouting.
BTW this is exactly the position the Mad Dane Claus took many ages ago before he was spanked and sent to his room.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:40 am

Cloverlief wrote:
ed wrote:
Cloverlief wrote: No the contention is that less guns, less murder by guns. And that guns one and only purpose is to kill. Let's eliminate that.
This is banal and stupid, frankly. "Get rid of cars and car related deaths will cease"

Useless and circular.

This is why I want to stay with principles. Are you concerned with the preservation of human life or merely how it might be taken? If the latter, we are talking style is all. The homicide rate in the UK seems to have actually increased after all of their restrictive gun laws. Would you congratulate yourself that the lost lives were not taken by firearms? What a shallow victory.
And we are back to Fuck it, legalize it all. Because you are so busy fucking your guns, you can't make a rational thought. Cars have other purposes than just killing. Guns do not.

Do you congratulate yourself every time someone dies from a gun? I agree, that is a shallow victory, and a heartless selfish one at that.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by xouper » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:19 pm

ed wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
xouper wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:Cars have other purposes than just killing. Guns do not.
That is factually incorrect.

Guns have several legitimate and lawful purposes that do not include killing people.

Fact: In the US, guns are used far more often for self defense than they are for killing people illegally.

Your claim that guns do not have any other purpose than just killing is total bunk.

Just because some people use guns unlawfully is not sufficient reason to take guns away from those who use guns for lawful purposes.
Guns one and only design is to be a weapon to kill efficiently. So, no it is not factually incorrect.
This is the problem with discussing this topic with the ignorant
Image
What would you call that? A killing machine. Please learn a bit about the topic before spouting.
BTW this is exactly the position the Mad Dane Claus took many ages ago before he was spanked and sent to his room.
For those who didn't already know, Ed is referring to a category of sport rifles that are designed exclusively for accuracy, not killing.

For detailed discussion of the design objectives, see for example (red bolding added by me):
[url]http://www.freewebs.com/ukbra/riflescartridges.htm[/url] wrote:
No doubt about it, the desire to own one of the worlds most accurate rifles is what attracts a lot of shooters to benchrest.

Benchrest is the Formula 1 of shooting-sports and our rifles are built with just one thing in mind - ultimate accuracy!

Image
This is an example of a category of rifles whose design clearly contradicts the claim that "Guns one and only design is to be a weapon to kill efficiently."

This is not to say that no guns are designed to kill. Clearly some are. So let's address that.

Most people who own guns do not own them for the purpose of killing people, even if a particular gun was specifically designed to kill people. Apart from the lawful purpose of sport shooting and hunting, there is also the lawful purpose of self defense.

Fact: Most successful uses of a gun for self defense do not result in anyone getting killed, or even shot.

This is why the objection that "guns are designed to kill" is not relevant to why most people own them. And thus such an objection is not relevant to the debate about whether law abiding citizens should be allowed to own them.

In any case, the Second Amendment right to own and carry guns does not have an exception for guns that are designed to kill. In fact, the Second Amendment was specifically worded to protect the right of individuals to own (personal) weapons of war.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by xouper » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:25 pm

The meme version:


Image


Moral: It's not the gun, it's the person who uses it that determines if it's used for good or bad.

That fact completely undermines any objection about what guns are designed for.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:52 pm

Cloverlief wrote:
WildCat wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:Now you are just throwing out word salad. I find it amusing that when Ed couldn't back up his arguments, he went to insults and so did you.

Weak. You and Ed both obviously need a good verbal beat down. Good thing I am here to deliver it.
What evidence would falsify your hypothesis that "more guns equals more murder"?
You do like to build strawmen. Does it make you feel better when you knock them down?
Apparently you have no idea what a "strawman" is.

But it appears there is no evidence you would accept that falsifies your hypothesis, correct? That puts your "hypothesis" in the same category as Creationism, it is a dogmatic belief with no basis in rationality.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by sparks » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:58 pm

"A power so great it can only be used for good or evil."

Just imagine that: "Accuracy" being (null) equated with killing. What other reason is there for "accuracy", except to insure a kill?

What fucking nonsense.

Congratulations, foolz.
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:11 pm

xouper wrote: This is why the objection that "guns are designed to kill"
I'd like to amplify on this point. Again, thee ignorance is so thick that it can be cut with a knife.

I happen to know a bit about early (pre 1500) firearms. When firearms were developed in europe and deployed with various armies, their purpose was to frighten. They might have killed, if you were standing in from of one but they were scary things and their value was to sow terror.

Another point. It is generally held that wounding, not killing is more desirable in warfare. How one squares that with the idea that they are designed to kill is an interesting problem.

The only firearms that are, from the initial conceptualization to the final product intended to and designed to kill are hunting firearms. No one hopes for wounded game.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by sparks » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:18 pm

So, you think the H bomb was designed to frighten?

You sound just like a Monty Python sketch ed.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Doctor X » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:39 pm

Well, actually, it was.

Though that is an entirely different thread which involves the numbers of casualties from the firebombings, expected casualties on both sides from an invasion, famine, Zombie Apocalypse, and Gram's Mom.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:40 pm

sparks wrote:So, you think the H bomb was designed to frighten?

You sound just like a Monty Python sketch ed.
Dunno. A lesson as I recall.

The point is that the subject is a bit more complex than it appears.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Doctor X » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 pm

Image

The "Patriot Way" Saves Thousands [Citation needed.--Ed.] in American Shit-Hole
Michael David Smith on April 4, 2018, 2:44 PM EDT

A 14-year old boy in Port Huron, Michigan, has been jailed for posting a comment on Patriots receiver Julian Edelman‘s Instagram, threatening a school shooting.

Edelman received a direct message from a follower telling him that someone had posted a threatening comment and asked his assistant to check his Instagram to find out what it referred to. When his assistant found a comment saying, “I’m going to shoot my school up watch the news,” Edelman asked her to call 911. Edelman said that after the recent focus on school shootings, he felt that he couldn’t dismiss the message.

“With the emotions of what happened, and I have a kid now, I said, holy Toledo [Citation needed.--Ed.], what is going on?” Edelman told the New York Times.

Police were able to determine the IP address of the boy who posted the threat. They say when police visited his house, he admitted posting it. There were two guns in the home, which belonged to Gram's his mother.

The boy is being held in a juvenile-detention center and was charged with making a false report of a threat of terrorism, a felony punishable by up to four years in prison.
If only more people were Patriots . . . and if the police would listen to Patriots.

:freedom:

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Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:01 pm

If you call yourself a patriot these days the left will call you a white nationalist Nazi fascist.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Doctor X » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:25 pm

Who cares what Jets fans think?

--J.D.
Mob of the Mean: Free beanie, cattle-prod and Charley Fan Club!
"Doctor X is just treating you the way he treats everyone--as subhuman crap too dumb to breathe in after you breathe out."--Don
DocX: FTW.--sparks
"Doctor X wins again."--Pyrrho
"Never sorry to make a racist Fucktard cry."--His Humble MagNIfIcence
"It was the criticisms of Doc X, actually, that let me see more clearly how far the hypocrisy had gone."--clarsct
"I'd leave it up to Doctor X who has been a benevolent tyrant so far."--Grammatron
"Indeed you are a river to your people.
Shit. That's going to end up in your sig."--Pyrrho
"Try a twelve step program and accept Doctor X as your High Power."--asthmatic camel
"just like Doc X said." --gnome

WS CHAMPIONS X4!!!! NBA CHAMPIONS!! Stanley Cup! SB CHAMPIONS X5!!!!!

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Grammatron » Wed Apr 04, 2018 9:26 pm

It helps that Michigan police are more competent than Florida police

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by xouper » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:00 pm

sparks wrote:What other reason is there for "accuracy", except to insure a kill?
Let's suppose for a moment that's a sincere question.

The answer is obvious. There are many sports and competitions that are judged on accuracy and have nothing whatsoever to do with killing.

Billiards, for example. Golf. Bowling. Basketball. Baseball (as in pitching).

In other words, accuracy for its own sake is a legitimate form of competition and sport, even when flinging bits of metal at a target.

Like darts.

Image

The point is, contrary to certain claims made earlier in this thread, a rifle can have other legitimate and lawful purposes besides killing people.

But that's only one example of a legitimate purpose for a gun. A much more common purpose for a gun is self defense, and that too does not require any killing for successful use.

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:16 pm

sparks wrote:So, you think the H bomb was designed to frighten?
Of course it was.

And it worked. The whole "deterrence" thing.

Without the H bomb, another world war by 1965.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by ed » Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:24 pm

Gun collecting.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by shemp » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:32 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
sparks wrote:So, you think the H bomb was designed to frighten?
Of course it was.

And it worked. The whole "deterrence" thing.

Without the H bomb, another world war by 1965.
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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by Cloverlief » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:59 am

ed wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:
xouper wrote:
Cloverlief wrote:Cars have other purposes than just killing. Guns do not.
That is factually incorrect.

Guns have several legitimate and lawful purposes that do not include killing people.

Fact: In the US, guns are used far more often for self defense than they are for killing people illegally.

Your claim that guns do not have any other purpose than just killing is total bunk.

Just because some people use guns unlawfully is not sufficient reason to take guns away from those who use guns for lawful purposes.
Guns one and only design is to be a weapon to kill efficiently. So, no it is not factually incorrect.
This is the problem with discussing this topic with the ignorant
Image
What would you call that? A killing machine. Please learn a bit about the topic before spouting.
BTW this is exactly the position the Mad Dane Claus took many ages ago before he was spanked and sent to his room.
This is the problem with discussing this problem with someone who is more concerned about inanimate objects that only purpose is to kill than actual human beings.
Chani

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Re: Fuck it, legalize it all!

Post by WildCat » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:14 am

Cloverlief wrote:Australia has seen a dramatic drop in the murder rate since the applied stricter gun control laws in 1996.
The murder rate fell by a higher percentage in the USA in the same time frame.

But, of course, no evidence can falsify your hypothesis because anti-gun is religious dogma for you.
Do you have questions about God?

you sniveling little right-wing nutter - jj