First self-driving car fatality

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Grammatron » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:54 am

Someone took a video of the same spot, it wasn't that dark either UBER just uses shit cameras, apparently.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:00 am

Or they manipulated it after-the-fact. This is Uber after all.

'cause gram didn't provide a link, i found another

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:04 am

I had the same thought, but that would be crazy risky.

Goes from tragic accident to a felony and a major scandal.

As it stands, at least half of the fault lies with the pedestrian. You shouldn't be crossing at night in a place like that against oncoming traffic. If you do, you should make sure you can cross safely before crossing. But it also seems like a failure of the technology. This is exactly the sort of accident you would hope it can prevent. LIDAR is supposed to see what a person can't and react quicker.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by ed » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:41 am

Seems IR detection would have helped.
If it goes to trial (by that I mean a thorough investigation) I wonder if there are documents showing Uber thought of the events that actually transpired or if they speculated on tech that "MIGHT" have prevented it. If so maybe manslaughter rather than just a sad accident? Sort of like a drunk getting behind the wheel.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:01 am

Uber Disabled Volvo SUV's Safety System Before Fatality

-- Supplier Aptiv says Uber was using its own self-driving system
-- Intel’s Mobileye software could have detected woman, CEO says

Uber’s Autonomous Cars Banned in Arizona After Fatal Crash

Uber Technologies Inc. disabled the standard collision-avoidance technology in the Volvo SUV that struck and killed a woman in Arizona last week, according to the auto-parts maker that supplied the vehicle’s radar and camera.

“We don’t want people to be confused or think it was a failure of the technology that we supply for Volvo, because that’s not the case,” Zach Peterson, a spokesman for Aptiv Plc, said by phone. The Volvo XC90’s standard advanced driver-assistance system “has nothing to do” with the Uber test vehicle’s autonomous driving system, he said.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... e-fatality

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by ed » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:35 am

"Intel’s Mobileye software could have detected woman"

Woulda, shoulda, coulda

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:01 pm

Uber's fucked. The police chief also probably shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
Arizona ordered Uber Technologies Inc. to stop operating autonomous cars on the state’s roads indefinitely after the death of a pedestrian there a week ago.

In a letter to Uber Chief Executive Officer Dara Khosrowshahi, Governor Doug Ducey called last week’s fatal incident involving an Uber self-driving car “an unquestionable failure” to comply with public safety standards.
Indefinitely. Meanwhile I assume the other companies are free to continue their programs.
“Improving public safety has always been the emphasis of Arizona’s approach to autonomous vehicle testing, and my expectation is that public safety is also the top priority for all who operate this technology in the state,” Ducey wrote in the letter. “Arizona will not tolerate any less than an unequivocal commitment to public safety.”
A video released by Tempe police showed the Uber car moving at a constant speed with no attempt to slow down or swerve in the moments before the collision. In recent days, executives from Alphabet Inc.’s Waymo and Intel Corp.’s Mobileye said their driverless-car software would have detected and responded to Elaine Herzberg, the woman struck while walking her bicycle across the road.
So it's an Uber-specific problem, not a problem with autonomous vehicles in general. Maybe.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:16 pm

Precedent set.

Every accident will be not the fault of the technology, as the body count keeps mounting higher.

Until it's a child.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:01 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Precedent set.

Every accident will be not the fault of the technology,...
They are pretty much specifically blaming Uber's in-house technology.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:03 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Precedent set.

Every accident will be not the fault of the technology,...
They are pretty much specifically blaming Uber's in-house technology.
But not "self driving" per se.

That is the point.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:45 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:Precedent set.

Every accident will be not the fault of the technology,...
They are pretty much specifically blaming Uber's in-house technology.
But not "self driving" per se.

That is the point.
Per say, they shouldn't, as the per se technology was not per se at fault.

Sharpen your point.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:51 pm

Wait until it's a kid and you will see the point.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by gnome » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:46 pm

If I were a manufacturer of autonomous car technology, I'd be already hunting for footage of the vehicle stopping for a child that might have been hit by a human driver.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by ed » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:51 pm

gnome wrote:If I were a manufacturer of autonomous car technology, I'd be already hunting for footage of the vehicle stopping for a child that might have been hit by a human driver.
Then they would be forced to ignore the ones where the kid is killed.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by gnome » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:13 pm

They won't have the opportunity to ignore. The news will collect and spread those. This is to create a counter-narrative.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:32 am

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by ed » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:42 am

gnome wrote:They won't have the opportunity to ignore. The news will collect and spread those. This is to create a counter-narrative.
That was an ironic remark.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:52 am

I wonder if they've fired the safety observer yet.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:14 am

Probably they should, even if only to "encourage the others", but this is completely predictable human behavior. The more work we entrust to machines, the less attentive we become to that work over time. So I'm not surprised that the "safety driver" would pay less and less attention over time.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:23 am

Anaxagoras wrote:Probably they should, even if only to "encourage the others", but this is completely predictable human behavior. The more work we entrust to machines, the less attentive we become to that work over time. So I'm not surprised that the "safety driver" would pay less and less attention over time.
In this case however, it was the utter dereliction of his only duty. He was clearly distracted by whatever was below and slightly left of the inside camera view ... almost certainly his cell phone. While the possibly altered Uber outside view shows her "appearing out of nowhere', other evidence greatly suggests the human view would have easily seen her in time to completely avoid the accident. For example, compare the Uber supplied video with the one I posted earlier (accident point is at roughly 33 seconds).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRW0q8i3u6E
This guy makes a decent argument that in addition to them altering the overall lighting they may have actually altered individual frames as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKBy4_3azBg
Not very well presented but he seems credible.

And for the record, my wife seems perfectly able to 'observe' every foot of every mile I drive and provide a constant stream of critical input. :x
Last edited by Rob Lister on Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.