First self-driving car fatality

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Rob Lister
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First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:29 pm

So I put this in politics because that's what it is now. Now we'll see if Abdul is eventually proved right. I'm betting not. Mostly because Abdul never gets it right.
Uber halts self-driving car tests after death

A 49-year-old woman was hit by a car and killed as she crossed the street in Tempe, Arizona.

While self-driving cars have been involved in multiple accidents, it is thought to be the first time a self-driving car has been involved in a fatal pedestrian collision.

Uber chief Dara Khosrowshahi said the death was "incredibly sad news".

"We're thinking of the victim's family as we work with local law enforcement to understand what happened," he said in a tweet.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-43459156

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:34 pm

I won't try to predict the ultimate outcome this time. but I do know the lawyers will be happy.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:17 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I won't try to predict the ultimate outcome this time. but I do know the lawyers will be happy.
Oops! Not this time Abdul.
Police chief: Uber self-driving car “likely” not at fault in fatal crash

Tempe police chief says victim "came from the shadows right into the roadway."

The chief of the Tempe Police has told the San Francisco Chronicle that Uber is likely not responsible for the Sunday evening crash that killed 49-year-old pedestrian Elaine Herzberg. "suspect preliminarily it appears that the Uber would likely not be at fault in this accident," said Chief Sylvia Moir. Herzberg was "pushing a bicycle laden with plastic shopping bags," according to the Chronicle's Carolyn Said, when she "abruptly walked from a center median into a lane of traffic." After viewing video captured by the Uber vehicle, Moir concluded that "it's very clear it would have been difficult to avoid this collision in any kind of mode (autonomous or human-driven) based on how she came from the shadows right into the roadway."
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/po ... tal-crash/

Sorry lawyers, Abdul. Maybe next time.

Although, I'm not sure what 'came out of the shadows' means in this case; I don't think Lidar sees shadows in the human sense of the word. Perhaps she came from behind some obstruction.

Or perhaps the Tempe police are involved in a cover-up. The phrase 'suspect preliminarily it appears that' deserves critical parsing. :)

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:39 pm

Maybe, but not willing to admit it just yet pending more information.

ETA:
Last edited by Abdul Alhazred on Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by gnome » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:27 pm

They really needn't be so coy even if the pedestrian wasn't at fault. Although I imagine they'd prefer to keep the record of 0 at-fault incidents for as long as they can, ultimately it will come down to safety record per mile per car compared to human drivers.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:55 pm

Even without the actual data (which we'll probably never see), it is starting to become more clear.
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https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/ar ... o-15257361

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https://www.google.com/maps/@33.4368426 ... 312!8i6656

I'm pretty sure I have the location right

It looks like bag lady was coming from behind the sign.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by sparks » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:33 pm

Bag lady?
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:45 pm

sparks wrote:Bag lady?
Yep. And hit by a transsexual bank robber in a robot car.

Click abdul's twitter link above.

Elaine Herzberg, 49, was homeless and had a string of drugs convictions when she was killed walking in front of the Uber self-driving car on Sunday night

The car safety observer, Rafaela Vasquez, who was then known as Rafael, has two felony convictions of which she was found guilty when she identified as a man. Vasquez was sentenced to five years in prison for attempted armed robbery in January 2000, and given a one-year concurrent sentence for making a false statement. It is unclear when Vasquez began identifying as female.

Can one make all this up?

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by sparks » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:54 pm

I...do not...trust...AAs twitter links.

He is ... twit feeding ... this forum. Always has. Always will.

But since there is no rule against this...
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by gnome » Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:59 pm

Fear not... he provides his own report button for you!
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:13 pm

The funny thing is, I don't do twitter myself at all.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:17 pm

gnome wrote:They really needn't be so coy even if the pedestrian wasn't at fault. Although I imagine they'd prefer to keep the record of 0 at-fault incidents for as long as they can, ultimately it will come down to safety record per mile per car compared to human drivers.
The sample size is still very small because in modern times the rate of traffic fatalities is only 1.18 per 100 million miles driven (a different source gives 1.25). Uber has driven only about 2 million miles in autonomous mode. If you add up all miles driven by all autonomous vehicles from all companies it appears to still be less than 10 million miles. So even a single fatality over that distance would still be higher than the average for human drivers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... eb6dff441e

I think in the long run they may prove safer but there are still issues like can it drive in snow or rain or dirt roads or roads without clearly marked lanes? A lot more testing needs to be done on a larger scale.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:31 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
sparks wrote:Bag lady?
Yep. And hit by a transsexual bank robber in a robot car.

Click abdul's twitter link above.

Elaine Herzberg, 49, was homeless and had a string of drugs convictions when she was killed walking in front of the Uber self-driving car on Sunday night

The car safety observer, Rafaela Vasquez, who was then known as Rafael, has two felony convictions of which she was found guilty when she identified as a man. Vasquez was sentenced to five years in prison for attempted armed robbery in January 2000, and given a one-year concurrent sentence for making a false statement. It is unclear when Vasquez began identifying as female.

Can one make all this up?
Given who she was, maybe there's one more possibility to consider:

https://gizmodo.com/people-throw-themse ... 1695698432
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Wed Mar 21, 2018 5:45 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
Given who she was, maybe there's one more possibility to consider:

https://gizmodo.com/people-throw-themse ... 1695698432
So you're sayin' the AI, being generally better at all things, offed her on purpose to prevent a lawsuit?

Very clever.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Mentat » Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:55 pm

Rob Lister wrote:
Anaxagoras wrote:
Given who she was, maybe there's one more possibility to consider:

https://gizmodo.com/people-throw-themse ... 1695698432
So you're sayin' the AI, being generally better at all things, offed her on purpose to prevent a lawsuit?

Very clever.
How else do you explain the car taking out a life insurance policy on her 8 seconds before collision?
It's "pea-can", man.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:39 am

Police have released the video:



I think an attentive human driver might have made the same mistake. The car probably should have had its high beams on.

OTOH, shouldn't LIDAR have seen her?
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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:30 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Police have released the video:



I think an attentive human driver might have made the same mistake. The car probably should have had its high beams on.

OTOH, shouldn't LIDAR have seen her?
That's the data I want to see.

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Doctor X » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:39 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:OTOH, shouldn't LIDAR have seen her?
Image

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by corplinx » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:29 pm

Today we learned, you can't walk in front of a self driving car going faster than the braking distance between you and it without getting hit.

Wow, so much was learned here!

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Re: First self-driving car fatality

Post by Abdul Alhazred » Thu Mar 22, 2018 3:02 pm

corplinx wrote:Today we learned, you can't walk in front of a self driving car going faster than the braking distance between you and it without getting hit.

Wow, so much was learned here!
Wait until it's a kid.

Unless that happens for the first time long after self driving cars are universal ...

GOOGLE KILLED MY BABY!

Meanwhile, just an old junkie so no one gets upset when the AI deems she was asking for it.
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