US Navy Ship collission

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:47 am

How common? Good question. My guess would be rare but not unprecedented.
The relevant articles of the UCMJ:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/919 Art. 119. Manslaughter

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/910 Art. 110. Improper hazarding of vessel

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/892 Art. 92. Failure to obey order or regulation (dereliction of duty)
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:04 am

From my extensive experience with the USN JAG [Self-abuse whilst watching Katherine Bell.--Ed.], I wondered if this is realistic or a bit political.

Of course, that would require knowing all of the details.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:14 am

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Doctor X » Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:02 am

But no Katherine Bell?

:freedom:

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Thu Jan 18, 2018 1:48 pm

These are two different accidents with utterly different causes.

In the case of the USS Fitzgerald, the skipper was asleep. His standing orders were not followed. He is certainly negligent in qualifying his OOD, JOOD and other watchstanders but I do not think the charge of negligent homicide will stand. Dereliction of Duty and Hazarding a vessel probably will stand.

In the case of the McCain, the skipper was there on the bridge and his order to split the helm was the direct cause of the accident. He might actually get convicted. It's hard to know because that part of the report left out key data.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Wed May 09, 2018 3:16 pm

WildCat wrote:I bet a woman was driving at the time. Probably putting on makeup while texting her girlfriends.
Well now we have an answer.

Officer of the deck during fatal Fitzgerald collision pleads guilty at court-martial
A junior officer who oversaw navigation of the destroyer Fitzgerald when it collided with a hulking merchant vessel on June 17, killing seven sailors, pleaded guilty to a dereliction of duty charge during a special court-martial Tuesday.

Lt. j.g. Sarah Coppock received a punitive letter and will forfeit half a month’s pay for three months as part of her sentence, according to a Navy statement.
. . .

Coppock was serving as officer of the deck, or OOD, at the time of the collision, and was accused of failing to follow the commanding officer’s standing orders, as well as international navigation rules.

She was supposed to communicate with the ship’s combat information center, report ship contacts to the skipper, operate safely in high-density traffic and warn the crew of imminent collisions, according to her charge sheet.

Navy officials declined to provide a copy of Coppock’s plea deal or any statement of fact for the case.

The Navy has also refused to make public any of its investigations into the disaster, but a review released last fall found the OOD to have made no attempt to contact the commercial ACX Crystal via radio, and did not attempt to maneuver to avoid the Crystal until a minute before the collision.

The Fitz’s crew had no warning before the hulking Crystal plowed into her starboard side. The impact flooded sailors’ living quarters in less than a minute, according to the review.

The ship’s captain, Cmdr. Bryce Benson, was asleep, and the Crystal’s bow punched into his quarters. He was injured and rescued by crew members as he clung to the side of the ship.

He faces an Article 32 hearing to determine if he will be court-martialed later this month.

Two juniors officers will face their own Article 32 relating to the Fitz disaster on Wednesday at the Navy Yard in Washington.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Doctor X » Wed May 09, 2018 10:37 pm

IF the tentacles details Anax posted are accurate, and he is not still a shill for the Bohemian Grove, then it is a harsh military reality: you go to sleep, you are still responsible for others fucking up below you.

Not that Catherine Bell the JAG will make this argument, but I suppose one could claim that the mere fact his junior did not perform according to standing orders, blah . . . blah . . . means she was not adequately trained to do to so, was unwilling to do so, suffered the stupids, which is all the responsibility of the C.O. to correct.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Thu May 10, 2018 12:18 am

Doctor X wrote:IF the tentacles details Anax posted are accurate, and he is not still a shill for the Bohemian Grove, then it is a harsh military reality: you go to sleep, you are still responsible for others fucking up below you.

Not that Catherine Bell the JAG will make this argument, but I suppose one could claim that the mere fact his junior did not perform according to standing orders, blah . . . blah . . . means she was not adequately trained to do to so, was unwilling to do so, suffered the stupids, which is all the responsibility of the C.O. to correct.

--J.D.
They will make that argument, successfully. So yes, you are correct.

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Giz » Thu May 10, 2018 1:10 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Doctor X wrote:IF the tentacles details Anax posted are accurate, and he is not still a shill for the Bohemian Grove, then it is a harsh military reality: you go to sleep, you are still responsible for others fucking up below you.

Not that Catherine Bell the JAG will make this argument, but I suppose one could claim that the mere fact his junior did not perform according to standing orders, blah . . . blah . . . means she was not adequately trained to do to so, was unwilling to do so, suffered the stupids, which is all the responsibility of the C.O. to correct.

--J.D.
They will make that argument, successfully. So yes, you are correct.
But isn't selecting a competent captain, the responsibility of an admiral?

And isn't the top admiral appointed by the President?

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Thu May 10, 2018 5:11 am

The Stars and Stripes has more:
Fitzgerald officer of the deck pleads guilty at court-martial
Lt. j.g. Sarah Coppock cried during her court-martial at the Washington Navy Yard. She was sentenced to forfeit half of her pay for three months – an additional month on top of the two she forfeited as her nonjudicial punishment. She also received a letter of reprimand.

“Not a day goes by where I haven’t thought about what I could have done differently,” she said. “There is nothing I can do now but take responsibility.”

Coppock said her success as an officer of the Navy was through the support of her squadrons. “And then, when it mattered, I failed them,” she said through tears. “I made some tremendously bad decisions and they had to pay the price for them.”
. . .

Prosecutors laid blame at Coppock’s feet, saying she “chose to be blind,” never sought help from the information center, did not respond properly when she saw the Crystal on the radar 12 nautical miles from the ship and lost situational awareness. She failed to sound blasts alerting the Crystal or attempt to contact it, nor did she alert the commanding officer, Lt. Cmdr. Paul Hochmuth said.

When it became clear that impact was inevitable, she “failed to give the crew notice, a chance to get out of their racks, a chance to brace themselves.”

The prosecution did acknowledge that Coppock never tried to “skip out of accepting accountability for this horrible collision” or tried to blame anyone else. She cooperated with the investigations and “appears to be trying to make sure this never happens again.”

She is one of many who contributed to the deaths of these sailors and the tens of millions in damage, Hochmuth said.

“She took responsibility on herself,” he said. “That should not be lost on the court.”

In his closing statement, one of Coppock’s defense counsel, Lt. Ryan Mooney, said the Navy needs to make systemic changes to ensure this kind of tragedy does not get repeated.

Citing lengthy reports completed since the collisions, Mooney painted a picture of crew that was overtasked and exhausted. The Fitzgerald was one of several ships in the Japan-based 7th Fleet that was undermanned and missing important experienced crewmembers. Critical training and qualifications were pushed off because of operational tasking.

Radars were not the only equipment in disrepair, affecting reliability and confidence, he said.

After the collision, a test taken by a control group of officers on board showed that the average score on “rules of the road” at sea was 59 percent, with just three officers scoring over 80 percent, Mooney said.

One of the two officers that Coppock was working closely with that night told investigators she had never heard of the voluntary traffic separation scheme governing heavily trafficked shipping lanes, he said.

“What does that say about the state of training on the Fitzgerald?” he said.

The other officer was new, with little experience.

. . .

Article 32 proceedings begin Wednesday against two more junior officers, both lieutenants whose names have not been released. They face three charges: dereliction in the performance of duties through neglect resulting in death, negligent hazarding of a vessel and negligent homicide.

The tactical information officer is accused of failing in her job to “communicate with the bridge vital contact information and safe speed and maneuvering recommendations, enforce watch-standing principles in the combat information center and support the officer of the deck.”

The surface warfare officer is charged with “effectively failing in his duties to supervise those on watch in the USS Fitzgerald Combat Information Center,” which monitors the operations of the ships and maintains contact with the bridge and the tactical action officer. He is faulted with failing “to maintain surface contact situational awareness; provide operational recommendations to the tactical action officer and the bridge, ensure proper watch-standing practices were carried out; and properly stand his assigned station.”
Names of the tactical information officer and the surface warfare officer don't seem to have been made public yet, but from the pronouns it seems the former is also a woman, and the latter a man.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Doctor X » Thu May 10, 2018 5:34 am



--J.D.
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by ed » Thu May 10, 2018 9:50 am

Perhaps someone who sorta knows what they are talking about could lay out what the sequence of events were and what mistakes were made at each juncture. How should it have gone down?
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Rob Lister » Thu May 10, 2018 10:28 am

ed wrote:Perhaps someone who sorta knows what they are talking about could lay out what the sequence of events were and what mistakes were made at each juncture. How should it have gone down?
http://s3.amazonaws.com/CHINFO/USS+Fitz ... eports.pdf

Very detailed report on exactly what happened for both. Here is a tiny snip from the summary of mistakes
In several instances,individual members of the watch teams identified incorrect information
or mistakes by others, yet failed to proactively and forcefully take corrective action, or otherwise highlight or communicate their individual concerns
Let that soak in for a moment. I think they're specifically pointing a finger at the Boatswain's Mate of the Watch. This is a senior enlisted guy (E6 or E7) that knows everything about everything. It reads like they expected him to mutiny.
Giz wrote:But isn't selecting a competent captain, the responsibility of an admiral?
Yep. Fired. The guy above him. Fired
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/che ... 9d8cce6321
Giz wrote:And isn't the top admiral appointed by the President?
More SecNav than president but he's gone too. That leaves the president and senate. Impeach the all!

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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by Anaxagoras » Tue May 15, 2018 3:11 am

Bryce Benson, Green Bay native, may reach plea agreement after deadly USS Fitzgerald crash
The Navy announced Monday that Benson had waived an Article 32 hearing scheduled for next week — a preliminary hearing that would have determined if there is enough evidence to proceed with the case.

The decision to waive the hearing may indicate a plea deal is in the works, said David Grogan, a retired military lawyer who during his 27-year career was involved in Article 32 hearings as the hearing officer and an attorney for both sides.

“Normally in a contested trial, there are few reasons for the defense to waive the hearing, so the fact that the defense has done so in this case may indicate it is considering a plea agreement,” he said.
The commanding officer of the USS McCain — the other ship involved in a fatal collision near Japan last year — will face a special court martial, the Navy revealed Monday. Cmdr. Alfredo Sanchez had been charged with negligent homicide, dereliction of duty and endangering a ship for the August 2017 collision, but Sanchez is now facing only a charge of dereliction of duty.

Navy spokesman William Speaks said Sanchez does not have a plea agreement in place and is scheduled for an arraignment May 25.
(The McCain wasn't really "near Japan" at the time, it was near Singapore, but we can't expect reporters to get everything right, can we?)
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Re: US Navy Ship collission

Post by shuize » Tue May 15, 2018 3:37 am

Anaxagoras wrote:(The McCain wasn't really "near Japan" at the time, it was near Singapore, but we can't expect reporters to get everything right, can we?)
Japan, Singapore. How can we really expect them to know the difference?