## Cuba

Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
corplinx
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### Re: Cuba

Sugar is a weirdly political crop Rob. We ran our domestic candy makers to other countries because of it. I wouldn't bank on cheap cuban sugar coming into the US.

Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Cuba

corplinx wrote:Sugar is a weirdly political crop Rob. We ran our domestic candy makers to other countries because of it. I wouldn't bank on cheap cuban sugar coming into the US.
Because of the heavy hand of Big Corn.

The price support on domestic sugar is only incidentally an example of self defeating protectionism. It's really to keep corn syrup competitive in the beverage and processed food industries.

And has not much to do with Cuba.
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gnome
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### Re: Cuba

jacks, can you turn your opinion into a general principle that we can apply to other countries as well, or does only our cuba policy depend on whether we need them, and every other country it doesn't matter?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
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jacks
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### Re: Cuba

Nyarlathotep wrote:
jacks wrote:
corplinx wrote:
jacks wrote:You still don't get it, we should benefit, but there is none.
Ipse Dixit. They are a net importer of goods and have a population greater than all but 7 states. I can lead you to water but I can't make you un-retarded.
bullshit
That's some solid and compelling evidence for your case right there.
Oh it's compelling you just fail to see it that's ok. Being blind to the rape of the American taxpayer is retarded.

Nyarlathotep
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### Re: Cuba

Again, no one is proposing done special trade status for them. You argument has nothing to do with normalizing relations. It is EXACTLY like arguing "onions taste nasty, therefore automatic weapons should be banned", the truth or falsehood of the premise has fuck all to do with the conclusion.
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Doctor X
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### Re: Cuba

jacks wrote:Oh it's compelling you just fail to see it that's ok.
Argumentum ad ignorantiam: he correctly identified your fallacy; you responded with invective and nothing by way of evidence. In fact, throughout this whole discussion you have made a claim without evidence and have actively avoided the opportunity and direct request for evidence for this claim.

You have offered the fallacial equivalent of "the Cubs will win the World Series this year!" then having a tantrum when asked why a reasonable person could consider that claim rational, let alone possible. This is similar to the rant a friend I visited made about how he is "convinced" Obama will "find a way" to remain in office after 2016. It has the same substance as that from the Moonbats and Lotus Eaters who believed Bush would not leave when his term ended.

Yet your claim is less credible: at least both men were/are President. Your claim? Well, unable to provide evidences--thanks--we find only ipse dixit with a dash of Poisoning the Well and even argumentum ad veritatem obfuscandam:
Being blind to the rape of the American taxpayer is retarded.
You have shown no such "rape." You have shown no potentiality for this "rape." Others have demonstrated otherwise, yet you could not respond to them. All you have, in the end, is an eschatological claim which, if I may confess some familiarity with the genre, probably will succeed as well as all previous eschatologies.

Despite all appearances, this is a "skeptical site." Evidences--thanks--are sort of considered "merely good manners" in a serious argument, even in a semi-serious argument, but probably not a hemi-serious argument because that would just be stupid.

In the rain.

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sparks
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### Re: Cuba

Nicely done Doc!
You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Rob Lister
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### Re: Cuba

Havana (AFP) - Near the popular Hotel Habana Libre in Cuba's capital, a gaggle of young people on cellphones, tablets and laptops log onto the new wifi hotspot -- a small milestone in one of the least connected countries.
Spoiler:
Sitting on the sidewalks, low-rise walls, or makeshift seats, several dozen people sign in at the public access wifi zone, part of the government's plan to roll out Internet access across the Communist island nation.

President Raul Castro's government has said it wants all Cubans to have Internet access by 2020..
http://news.yahoo.com/cubas-wifi-hotspo ... NlYwNzcg--
He sez "Internet" but does he mean Intranet? I don't think he is brave enough to let go that completely.

But if he really wants that, I'm sure some company like Google would bend over backward to accommodate that 5 year plan. 1Gb internet access for ever man, woman and child and a chromebook to boot. In five years? Easy.

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### Re: Cuba

You can lead them to knowledge, but you can't make them think.

Skeeve
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### Cost of the embargo

...
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce estimates that the embargo costs the U.S. economy $1.2 billion per year in lost sales and exports, while the Cuban government estimates that the embargo costs the island itself$685 million annually.[38] The United States has spent over $500 million broadcasting Radio Marti and TV Marti, even though the transmission signals of the latter are effectively blocked by the Cuban government.[39] The self-proclaimed non-partisan Cuba Policy Foundation estimates that the embargo costs the U.S. economy$3.6 billion per year in economic output.[40]
The 1998 U.S. State Department report Zenith and Eclipse: A Comparative Look at Socio-Economic Conditions in Pre-Castro and Present Day Cuba[41] argued that the U.S. embargo has added, at most, relatively small increases in transportation costs. It claims that the main problem is not the embargo but the lack of foreign currency due to the unwillingness of Cuba to liberalize its economy and diversify its export base during the years of abundant Soviet aid. Cuba also amassed substantial debts owed to its Japanese, European, and Latin American trading partners during the years of abundant Soviet aid.
According to critics, one of the major problems with the embargo is that the United States is the only major country that has such an embargo against Cuba in place. Cuba still receives tourists and trade from other countries making the embargo appear both illegitimate and pointless.[42]

So it seems that the downside of the embargo is it costs us money, and tends to makes us look stupid.
Oh and they already have a good tourist industry too...I wonder how the beaches are?
Then Skank Of America could start in...

Witness
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### Re: Cuba

Doctor X wrote:We need their left-handed relief pitchers and right-handed power bats.

What?

--J.D.

corplinx
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### Re: Cost of the embargo

Skeeve wrote:
So it seems that the downside of the embargo is it costs us money, and tends to makes us look stupid.
Oh and they already have a good tourist industry too...I wonder how the beaches are?
I hear they are nice. Well off Americans have always gone to Cuba. Basically, you take a trip to Grand Cayman. From Grand Cayman to you fly to Cuba. They don't stamp your passport in Cuba so it doesn't leave a paper trail.

This is how American scuba divers have been going to Cuba for years already.

Anaxagoras
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### Re: Cuba

http://www.marketplace.org/topics/world ... nt-get-cub

Says that U.S. rice farmers would benefit if the embargo were lifted.
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare

Witness
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### Re: Cuba

Some barter economy, perhaps?

ed
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### Re: Cuba

Abdul Alhazred wrote: the heavy hand of Big Corn.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

ed
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### Re: Cost of the embargo

Skeeve wrote:
...
The U.S. Chamber of Commerce estimates that the embargo costs the U.S. economy $1.2 billion per year in lost sales and exports US Exports‎: ‎$1.64 trillion
Fuck 'em.
Wenn ich Kultur höre, entsichere ich meinen Browning!

ed
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### Re: Cost of the embargo

Skeeve wrote:
Oh and they already have a good tourist industry too...I wonder how the beaches are?

They're great.

Seriously, could an unintended consequence be the resurgence of the mob? A dictatorship would work well for them, not unlike Battista.
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Abdul Alhazred
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### Re: Cuba

The old "mob" really is gone, despite a few tattered remnants in places like Bensonhurst. But of course there will always be a "mob" in the larger sense.

In Cuba at the present time it is the Communist Party. Tourism is a way they make money. If the embargo is lifted it will still be so.
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gnome
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### Re: Cuba

What happened to jacks?

His final word on the matter to persuade us was "because fuck Cuba"?
"If fighting is sure to result in victory, then you must fight! Sun Tzu said that, and I'd say he knows a little bit more about fighting than you do, pal, because he invented it, and then he perfected it so that no living man could best him in the ring of honor. Then, he used his fight money to buy two of every animal on earth, and then he herded them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one. And from that day forward any time a bunch of animals are together in one place it's called a zoo! (Beat) Unless it's a farm!"
--Soldier, TF2

corplinx
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### Re: Cuba

Cuba had a revolution and Vegas went corporate. The "glory days" of organized crime are long over.