Mexico, WTF

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Mexico, WTF

Postby Grammatron » Thu Aug 26, 2010 1:00 am

Does anyone have any good reading material such as books, blogs, newsfeeds concerning Mexico to suggest? The country seems to be worse as bad as Iraq and in the midst of a war, and on the brink of total chaos. And yet aside from Drugs, I know little about what's going on there. Considering Mexico is a heck of a lot closer than Iraq it would be interesting to learn the extent of the clusterfuck.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:05 am

1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.
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Postby Grammatron » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:10 am

jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


That's all surface stuff that I am well aware of. I was looking for some actual analyses and data.
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Postby ck » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:28 am

jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


You omitted an important piece of information. In recent years the government of Mexico declared their own War on Drugs...and it pretty much is a literal war. Troops have been involved. So it's basically them vs. the drug cartels and it has ramped up the violence quite a bit recently.

A decade ago you could cross into Juarez and not have any problems, and I did many times. Try that today and it would be very risky indeed.

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Postby ck » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:33 am

Grammy, if you read Spanish, Judith Torrea does a blog. She is a freelance writer who lives in Juarez. She writes a popular blog in Spanish about Juarez in which a lot of the drug-related violence takes place.

http://juarezenlasombra.blogspot.com/

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Postby corplinx » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:54 am

jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


Fundie morals with Voodoo like presentation. Freaks me out man.

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Postby WildCat » Thu Aug 26, 2010 3:27 am

Grammatron wrote:
jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


That's all surface stuff that I am well aware of. I was looking for some actual analyses and data.

In technical terms, Mexico is fucked.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:04 am

Grammatron wrote:
jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


That's all surface stuff that I am well aware of. I was looking for some actual analyses and data.


Well, you have several choices. You can look at the conclusions (which is not the "surface stuff" like your unsual ungrateful spite would call it), or you can ask for the data that leads to it.

But you asked where to start, and I gave you the answers. If you don't like them, do your own work.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:04 am

ck wrote:
jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


You omitted an important piece of information. In recent years the government of Mexico declared their own War on Drugs...and it pretty much is a literal war. Troops have been involved. So it's basically them vs. the drug cartels and it has ramped up the violence quite a bit recently.

A decade ago you could cross into Juarez and not have any problems, and I did many times. Try that today and it would be very risky indeed.


All true :(
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:04 am

corplinx wrote:
jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


Fundie morals with Voodoo like presentation. Freaks me out man.


It's sorta like Inca Catholocism... Yeah.
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Postby corplinx » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:49 am

Mexico isn't fucked. Like America, if you only see the news about murder it looks like a dangerous place.

Just stay out of the drug pipelines and border towns. I don't want to sound like a "blame america" 1980s urban liberal, but the war on drugs is largely responsible for this violence.

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Postby Grammatron » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:10 am

jj wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


That's all surface stuff that I am well aware of. I was looking for some actual analyses and data.


Well, you have several choices. You can look at the conclusions (which is not the "surface stuff" like your unsual ungrateful spite would call it), or you can ask for the data that leads to it.

But you asked where to start, and I gave you the answers. If you don't like them, do your own work.


You're a funny guy jj.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 5:54 am

Grammatron wrote:
jj wrote:
Grammatron wrote:
jj wrote:1) Our war on drugs has encouraged their drug lords.
2) Other than illegal drug sales, their economy sucks.
3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.
4) Their government makes Haiti look uncorrupted.


That's all surface stuff that I am well aware of. I was looking for some actual analyses and data.


Well, you have several choices. You can look at the conclusions (which is not the "surface stuff" like your unsual ungrateful spite would call it), or you can ask for the data that leads to it.

But you asked where to start, and I gave you the answers. If you don't like them, do your own work.


You're a funny guy jj.


Oh yeah, and you're what? Is ingrate or ungrate?
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Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:25 am

jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


This is false. Not merely an exaggeration. It's just plain not true.

In fact Mexico has a history of anti-clericalism.
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Postby ed » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:45 am

corplinx wrote:
jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


Fundie morals with Voodoo like presentation. Freaks me out man.


And those are the folks that are here illegally.

Wonder what they think of Roe V. Wade?

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Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 26, 2010 11:54 am

This doesn't tell the half of it, but will get you pointed in the right direction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Cath ... _in_Mexico
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:29 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


This is false. Not merely an exaggeration. It's just plain not true.

In fact Mexico has a history of anti-clericalism.


Uh, some parts of it do. In some places, expecially Yucatan, etc, the local cleric has more authority with the people than the government does.

Trips down to the Yucatan for caving/pit hopping very often report "interesting" issues of this kind.

So, argue what you may, you are mistaken.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:32 pm

ed wrote:
corplinx wrote:
jj wrote:3) The Catholic Church very nearly rules large parts of rural Mexico, and it's the fundie version.


Fundie morals with Voodoo like presentation. Freaks me out man.


And those are the folks that are here illegally.

Wonder what they think of Roe V. Wade?


Ed, you just make things up, don't you? No, the people who cross the border are not generally these people, where did you get this idea? The kind of people that live in these parts of Mexico mostly live in misery because they think they deserve it. Thank you, our lady of perpetual guilt. I'm sure some attempt the border crossing, but that is hardly surprising.

What's more, since these "illegal" people have been very nearly solicited by the businessmen who now want to get rid of them in a downturn, I think you're just trying to help out the slavers.
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Postby En folkefiende » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:33 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:This doesn't tell the half of it, but will get you pointed in the right direction:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Cath ... _in_Mexico


And what it shows is that government anti-Clericalism is a failed policy. But I bet you knew that when you started, eh?
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Postby corplinx » Thu Aug 26, 2010 4:34 pm

jj wrote: I think you're just trying to help out the slavers.


Ed.. Pro-Slavery. I thought I knew him....


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