Supreme Court strikes a blow for the First Amendment.

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Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decision

Post by Skeeve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:48 pm

UPDATE: Left and right united in opposition to controversial SCOTUS decision
Much has been made of late about the hyper-partisan political environment in America. On Tuesday, Sen. Evan Bayh explained his surprising recent decision to leave the Senate by lamenting a "dysfunctional" political system riddled with "brain-dead partisanship." It seems you'd be hard-pressed to get Republicans and Democrats inside and outside of Washington to agree on anything these days, that if one party publicly stated its intention to add a "puppies are adorable" declaration to its platform, that the other party would immediately launch a series of anti-puppy advertisements.

But it appears that one issue does unite Americans across the political spectrum.

A new Washington Post-ABC News poll finds that the vast majority of Americans are vehemently opposed to a recent Supreme Court ruling that opens the door for corporations, labor unions, and other organizations to spend money directly from their general funds to influence campaigns.
Interesting....oh well.
I doubt many folks here 'on the Right' are bleating about it too much.
However, for all the other folks 'on the 'Right' who voted for dubya, just remember, he appointed two of the Justices that voted for it.
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by corplinx » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:13 pm

It could just as easily read "left and right united in support". See the fallacy there and bias there?

There isn't a single group of people who support or oppose the decision in a uniform groupthink.

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Post by DrMatt » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:31 pm

Where do foreigners and prisoners fall in this story?
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Post by corplinx » Thu Feb 18, 2010 5:34 pm

DrMatt wrote:Where do foreigners and prisoners fall in this story?
Sarlacc Pit

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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by WildCat » Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:24 pm

Skeeve wrote:UPDATE:
No, it wasn't really an update.

And have you read this thread?
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by Skeeve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:32 pm

corplinx wrote:
It could just as easily read "left and right united in support". See the fallacy there and bias there?
...
As noted by the Post's Dan Eggen, the poll's findings show "remarkably strong agreement" across the board, with roughly 80% of Americans saying that they're against the Court's 5-4 decision. Even more remarkable may be that opposition by Republicans, Democrats, and Independents were all near the same 80% opposition range. Specifically, 85% of Democrats, 81% of Independents, and 76% of Republicans opposed it. In short, "everyone hates" the ruling.
It looks pretty one-sided corplinx.
corplinx wrote:There isn't a single group of people who support or oppose the decision in a uniform groupthink.
I'm not sure what you mean, but I am willing to listen.
WildCat wrote:No, it wasn't really an update.

And have you read this thread?
I have, I guess I missed this one, and your right it is a bit old, my bad.
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by xouper » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:37 pm

... As noted by the Post's Dan Eggen, the poll's findings show "remarkably strong agreement" across the board, with roughly 80% of Americans saying that they're against the Court's 5-4 decision. Even more remarkable may be that opposition by Republicans, Democrats, and Independents were all near the same 80% opposition range. Specifically, 85% of Democrats, 81% of Independents, and 76% of Republicans opposed it. In short, "everyone hates" the ruling.
It's discouraging to see how many politicians are in favor of violating the First Amendment. And that's exactly why it was put there.

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Post by DrMatt » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:43 pm

Unanimous on "under god", remember?
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by Skeeve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:19 pm

xouper wrote:
... As noted by the Post's Dan Eggen, the poll's findings show "remarkably strong agreement" across the board, with roughly 80% of Americans saying that they're against the Court's 5-4 decision. Even more remarkable may be that opposition by Republicans, Democrats, and Independents were all near the same 80% opposition range. Specifically, 85% of Democrats, 81% of Independents, and 76% of Republicans opposed it. In short, "everyone hates" the ruling.
It's discouraging to see how many politicians are in favor of violating the First Amendment. And that's exactly why it was put there.
Unless you are joking, I think they mean 'just folks' in this poll, not politicians.
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by xouper » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:27 pm

Skeeve wrote:
xouper wrote:
... As noted by the Post's Dan Eggen, the poll's findings show "remarkably strong agreement" across the board, with roughly 80% of Americans saying that they're against the Court's 5-4 decision. Even more remarkable may be that opposition by Republicans, Democrats, and Independents were all near the same 80% opposition range. Specifically, 85% of Democrats, 81% of Independents, and 76% of Republicans opposed it. In short, "everyone hates" the ruling.
It's discouraging to see how many politicians are in favor of violating the First Amendment. And that's exactly why it was put there.
Unless you are joking, I think they mean 'just folks' in this poll, not politicians.
I should have quoted this part instead:
The poll's findings could enhance the possibility of getting a broad range of support behind a movement in Congress to pass legislation that would offset the Court's decision.

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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by Skeeve » Thu Feb 18, 2010 10:37 pm

xouper wrote:
Skeeve wrote:
xouper wrote:
... As noted by the Post's Dan Eggen, the poll's findings show "remarkably strong agreement" across the board, with roughly 80% of Americans saying that they're against the Court's 5-4 decision. Even more remarkable may be that opposition by Republicans, Democrats, and Independents were all near the same 80% opposition range. Specifically, 85% of Democrats, 81% of Independents, and 76% of Republicans opposed it. In short, "everyone hates" the ruling.
It's discouraging to see how many politicians are in favor of violating the First Amendment. And that's exactly why it was put there.
Unless you are joking, I think they mean 'just folks' in this poll, not politicians.
I should have quoted this part instead:
The poll's findings could enhance the possibility of getting a broad range of support behind a movement in Congress to pass legislation that would offset the Court's decision.
Ah, I see, but since...
...
The decision was almost universally hailed by Republicans in Washington, who saw it as a victory for the free speech provided for under the Constitution, while President Obama and prominent Democrats in Washington almost universally derided it as a dark day for American democracy.
If Democrats bring it up, the Republicans will bliock it and it and it will go no where anyway....or maybe not. We'll see.
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Post by DrMatt » Fri Feb 19, 2010 12:10 am

The political will to not have an equivalent of our First Amendment exists in Europe.
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Post by Skeeve » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:08 am

DrMatt wrote:The political will to not have an equivalent of our First Amendment exists in Europe.
Maybe, however I doubt the GOP will start anything unless their base (or Rush and/or Glen) starts a shit storm, so that leaves the Dem's.

Since the GOP seems to be naturally opposed to anything the Dems bring up....

Ah, well see...
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Re: Left and right united in opposition to ... SCOTUS decisi

Post by Nyarlathotep » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:42 am

corplinx wrote:
There isn't a single group of people who support or oppose the decision in a uniform groupthink.
Yes there is. the group of people who support the idea all support it and the group of people who oppose the idea oppose it.

Remember: the first rule of tautology club is the first rule of tautology club...
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One solution?

Post by Skeeve » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:44 pm

xouper wrote:
tedly wrote:... Does it necessarily follow, from the corporation's creation as a person, that it is therefore a citizen, and entitled to contribute to political campaigns? I seem to recall a great deal of fuss in US politics about taking money from Korean sources, because, (I'm guessing) they weren't citizens.
1) With respect to the court decision and the First Amendment, it is irrelevant whether a corporation is a legal "person".

2) The court decision was not about contributions to political campaigns, it was about Congress making a law abridging freedom of speech.
My solution:
Limit total 'political-candidate' contributions by any person (real or fictional) or entity to a maximum of (lets say) $10,000 per year, TOTAL.
And then leave free speech alone. YMMV
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 19, 2010 2:49 pm

I have a better idea.

No limits on contributions, but every contribution must be out in the open.

Do you really think "limiting the amount" limits the amount?
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Re: One solution?

Post by WildCat » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:00 pm

Skeeve wrote:My solution:
Limit total 'political-candidate' contributions by any person (real or fictional) or entity to a maximum of (lets say) $10,000 per year, TOTAL.
And then leave free speech alone. YMMV
Why not $10/year?
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Post by WildCat » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:03 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:I have a better idea.

No limits on contributions, but every contribution must be out in the open.

Do you really think "limiting the amount" limits the amount?
Yes, it would. If campaign contributions were limited to $10 per person the maximum amount colllected would be $10 times the population.

Toni Preckwinkle got $150,000 from the SEIU for her Cook County board run... you don't think that will influence her when it comes to cutting the fat from the county budget?
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:10 pm

WildCat wrote:Toni Preckwinkle got $150,000 from the SEIU for her Cook County board run... you don't think that will influence her when it comes to cutting the fat from the county budget?
Better than getting it under the table and no one the wiser?

What change in the law do you think it would take to make Cook County not corrupt? As distinct from enforcing the laws we have now?
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Post by Abdul Alhazred » Fri Feb 19, 2010 3:12 pm

The longer I live here the more I am convinced that rank-and-file voters in Cook County actually like corruption. I also think this is increasingly true of Democrats generally.
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