hyperloop

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Re: hyperloop

Postby ceptimus » Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:55 am

Brunel built an atmospheric railway back in the 1840s. The trains were powered by vacuum in a tube laid between the tracks. There was a piston that slid in the tube, attached to the train by a blade that ran in a slot at the top of the tube. The tube had some greased flaps that sealed the slot in when the train wasn't passing.

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It was a failure partly because rats nibbled at the sealing flaps and so destroyed the vacuum. The railway line was retained but converted to normal steam locomotive power.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:49 pm

Image

I love Elon to death. I want to have his rocket baby. I want to give him a hummer in his electric hummer.

But this is such a dumb idea, pragmatically, that it just makes me lose respect for him. Sure, maybe it is a fun academic exercise but the thought of making it practical is just dumb, dumb, dumb.

It's okay, Elon, I still love you.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue May 10, 2016 12:22 pm

LA to SF in 30 min: the hyperloop wars are on

On Monday, a crowdsourced enterprise led by NASA and Boeing veterans called Hyperloop Transportation Technologies announced it had licensed passive magnetic levitation technology to power its prototype system, which like other hyperloop templates, promises to shuttle humans and goods in a vacuum tube system at speeds up to 750 mph.

How fast is that? Zipping from Los Angeles to San Francisco would take 30 minutes as compared to a six-hour drive or an all-day train ride.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news ... /84137224/

Such fucking pie in the sky.

And that's not to mention the price tag. A tube system linking L.A. and San Francisco with hyperloop pods has been estimated to cost north of $6 billion.


More pie in the sky. I would bet well north of $6 billion. North pole north of $6 billion. $6 billion might cover the political graft.

Distance from LA to SF is ~600km
n July 2014 The World Bank reported that the per kilometer cost of California's high-speed rail system was $56 million ... per km
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Californi ... rojections

600km * $56m = 33 Billion.

Okay, but they'll cheaper than HSR. Because, ya know, Musk. But not that much cheaper.

OTOH, at 750mph a turn radius of 3 miles is ~2.5G, which is pretty uncomfortable. Better keep those curves very slow. That's horizontal and vertical, btw. Is that LA to SF trek a particularly hilly one?

I think vomit will be a integral part of the experience.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed May 11, 2016 1:16 am

Rob Lister wrote:OTOH, at 750mph a turn radius of 3 miles is ~2.5G, which is pretty uncomfortable. Better keep those curves very slow. That's horizontal and vertical, btw. Is that LA to SF trek a particularly hilly one?

I think vomit will be a integral part of the experience.


Awesome!

Well, of course you could slow down to take the curves, and that would mean it's going to be more than 30 minutes.

There would be hills near LA and hills near SF I think, but the Central Valley is flat as a pool table. I spent a few weeks in Lemore to train for F/A-18s after I left my A-6 squadron in Japan.

In Japan, they tend to make a lot of tunnels for the Shinkansen. Those would add to the cost of course.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:54 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNFesa01llk

Analysis by Thunderf00t. I think he identifies a lot of fatal flaws in this scheme. The primary one being safety. Problems like thermal expansion problems, the fact that no one has ever made a vacuum tube even close to that size, problems like a single point of failure being likely to destroy the whole thing and kill everyone in it. Minor stuff like that.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Aug 02, 2016 12:11 am

The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.

That is assuming you have the right population density to make it economic (Japan, Western Europe, Northeast Corridor).

In the case of the Northeast Corridor, the rights of way are already there, and only needs upgrading to do the trick. Money is not there now, but it's the sort of thing that can be done.

California, not so much (not to mention that the "project" was never really intended to be built).
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 02, 2016 1:22 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.



No. That is not the best way. two dedicated airports and a bunch of planes is the way to go. You could build the airports and buy the planes at a tenth of what HSR would cost.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:51 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.



No. That is not the best way. two dedicated airports and a bunch of planes is the way to go. You could build the airports and buy the planes at a tenth of what HSR would cost.


For relatively shorter trips (e.g. Boston to DC with a few stops in between), rail is more convenient. No three hour cab ride to downtown.

And it's cheaper to build if the right of way is already there.

And airports bad neighbors.

However, I do believe that rail can play nice together with other forms of transportation (as it already does for freight).
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:18 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.



No. That is not the best way. two dedicated airports and a bunch of planes is the way to go. You could build the airports and buy the planes at a tenth of what HSR would cost.


For relatively shorter trips (e.g. Boston to DC with a few stops in between), rail is more convenient. No three hour cab ride to downtown.


Is the three hour cab ride to and from the high speed rail station somehow more tolerable?

And it's cheaper to build if the right of way is already there.


Planes don't need right of way.

And airports bad neighbors.


I don't have a witty retort for that one ... verb or no verb.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:26 am

Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.



No. That is not the best way. two dedicated airports and a bunch of planes is the way to go. You could build the airports and buy the planes at a tenth of what HSR would cost.


For relatively shorter trips (e.g. Boston to DC with a few stops in between), rail is more convenient. No three hour cab ride to downtown.


Is the three hour cab ride to and from the high speed rail station somehow more tolerable?


The train station is already downtown.

Nice try Troll Boy.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:47 am

Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:
Rob Lister wrote:
Abdul Alhazred wrote:The best way to go would be high speed conventional rail.



No. That is not the best way. two dedicated airports and a bunch of planes is the way to go. You could build the airports and buy the planes at a tenth of what HSR would cost.


For relatively shorter trips (e.g. Boston to DC with a few stops in between), rail is more convenient. No three hour cab ride to downtown.


Is the three hour cab ride to and from the high speed rail station somehow more tolerable?


The train station is already downtown.

Nice try Troll Boy.


The airport is already there too. It is 3 miles from the train station. It takes no longer to get to it than to the train station, you verbless cunt.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:53 am

Assuming you are already downtown.

In my own case here in Japan, if I wanted to go to Osaka for example, getting from my house to the nearest Shinkansen station is roughly comparable to getting to the nearest airport. However, once there it is probably easier to board the train than to board the airplane. It's been a while since I did it so, you know. If I were to do it though I think I would prefer the Shinkansen experience. It might be more convenient at the other end too.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:01 am

I think here in the U.S., boarding a HSR is going to be as tedious as boarding a jet.

Image

Does Ab-bull think HSR is going to be cheaper or faster than that, even if it had only half the security? Even if you stipulate the 3-hour cab ride that exists only in the mind of an insane person.

And lest we forget

Cost of building out that HSR: Double-digit billions estimate and double it again actual
Cost of adding flights to existing Airport: Zero.

Not to mention,...

google wrote:Cost: The lowest fare found on Acela Express was $198 roundtrip from New York to Boston, and $98 roundtrip on the slower regional service. From Washington D.C. to Boston, we found $314 roundtrip on Acela and $140 roundtrip on the regional train.


Does anyone think the round trip ticket for the newly construct $100 billion HSR is going to be cheaper than the existing Acela Express? Of course not. But on the upside, HSR will only take ~twice or trice as long as flying and cost only 5 or 6 times as much. Hey, maybe they can hire James Kerasiotes to head up the construction.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:23 pm

More hyperloop nonsense.

Thursday Hyperloop One executives announced that they've finished constructing their 1,640-foot-long "DevLoop" test track in the desert outside Las Vegas. But they also revealed possible U.S. routes for their high-speed transportation solution "to initiate a nationwide conversation about the future of American transportation" -- five of them suggested by state transportation department officials from Texas, Florida, Colorado, Nevada and Missouri.
https://tech.slashdot.org/story/17/04/0 ... test-track

A star trek type transporter and warp drive will happen before this is ever deployed. Roughly 4/5th's of Slashdot contributors think it is wondrously likely. The remaining 1/5th can't type because they're double-facepalming.

If they're truly going to test this thing, breach the tube anywhere along its length while a 'pod' is moving through it. They'll be a 15 PSI wall of air moving through the tube at roughly 400 mph.

Image
http://www.atomicarchive.com/Effects/effects4.shtml

It will utterly obliterate the pod and all's it's passengers. You'd have a difficult time finding pieces of human meat bigger than a baseball.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:23 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:Assuming you are already downtown.

In my own case here in Japan, if I wanted to go to Osaka for example, getting from my house to the nearest Shinkansen station is roughly comparable to getting to the nearest airport. However, once there it is probably easier to board the train than to board the airplane. It's been a while since I did it so, you know. If I were to do it though I think I would prefer the Shinkansen experience. It might be more convenient at the other end too.


I'm also thinking that living near the station is less unpleasant than living near a major airport.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:25 pm

I seem to recall from Popular Mechanics from long ago that the future for fast "air" travel was suborbital rocket ships.

NY to LA in a half hour (not counting boarding, getting to the airport, etc).
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Apr 09, 2017 2:27 pm

I also propose hyperloop be renamed hyper-friggin-loop.

You know, to get more investors and maybe some public funding. :BigGrin3:
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Re: hyperloop

Postby ceptimus » Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:24 pm

Rob Lister wrote:If they're truly going to test this thing, breach the tube anywhere along its length while a 'pod' is moving through it. They'll be a 15 PSI wall of air moving through the tube at roughly 400 mph.

That's only true for a catastrophic total failure breach where all or most of the cross section of the tube is exposed to the air - even then the effects would fade away a few tens of miles along the tube after the flow resistance of the tube has enough length to become effective.

For a 'small crack or small hole' type of breach the effects would be much less dramatic and scary.

But I agree with you that there is no way this is going to be built for the foreseeable future - it would require the economy to change beyond recognition before it might ever become cost effective, even if the safety and practicality issues could be overcome.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:36 pm

Update: Hyper-friggin-loop ALREADY OBSOLETE!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... 00mph.html
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Re: hyperloop

Postby ed » Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:50 pm

There is this

Image

Got a bud who is trying to commercialize the cat, brought up to date of course. Has a lot going for it between cities that are near the H2O.

Flew on one once from St. Thomas to San Juan, fun experience.
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