hyperloop

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hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:05 pm

Inside the Hyperloop: the pneumatic travel system faster than the speed of sound

It is called “The Hyperloop” and, according to the designer, it will be a revolutionary “fifth mode” of transport, eclipsing trains, planes, boats and automobiles.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/n ... sound.html

So, the billionaire behind this has a track record for success.

https://www.google.com/search?q=Elon+Mu ... hannel=rcs

I can't imagine getting a return on the dollar. But it would probably be cheaper than high-speed rail.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 11, 2013 6:21 pm

Elon Musk totally copied Alfred Ely Beach. :P

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:15 pm

twice as fast as an airplane.

1000 mph?

maglev.

while technologically possible, i remain more than skeptical.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:20 pm

Rob Lister wrote:twice as fast as an airplane.


Cut Alfred Ely Beach some slack. There were no airplanes back then. 8)
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Cool Hand » Sun Aug 11, 2013 8:06 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Elon Musk totally copied Alfred Ely Beach. :P

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That dude on the right is totally about to have his left arm taken off. He's gonna need a doctor and a lot of blood really soon.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 12, 2013 3:56 am

He believes the Hyperloop could be built for a tenth of the cost and deliver passengers between the two cities in just 30 minutes, compared to three hours for the bullet train.


:lol:

I mean, c'mon. How can anyone take that seriously?

Maybe there is something to the idea, but these things always, always cost a lot more and take longer than they say they will.

And it's pneumatic? Really? Gonna have to read the article but I'm already doubtful.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Mon Aug 12, 2013 4:01 am

The mercurial, fictional character of Tony Stark, played by Robert Downey Jr in the Iron Man films, is reputedly based on him.


Really? Iron Man and his alter ego Tony Stark are older than Musk. :?
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Re: hyperloop

Postby no one in particular » Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:37 pm

Anaxagoras wrote:
The mercurial, fictional character of Tony Stark, played by Robert Downey Jr in the Iron Man films, is reputedly based on him.


Really? Iron Man and his alter ego Tony Stark are older than Musk. :?


I keep seeing folks get this confused. This is mostly due to poor writing in these articles. Perhaps if it had said "as played by" instead of "played by."

Because as it turns out, Jon Favreau and RDJ did indeed model RDJ's on-screen portrayal after Musk.

Evidences.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:12 am

A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 13, 2013 11:21 am

Having only browsed it front to back, I'm not hating it yet; nothing stands out as ludicrous. The logic is sound. The math I presume is correct.

One notable outlay he doesn't address is political graft. But I can understand that.

Here's a bold statement near the front:
Amortizing this capital cost over 20 years and adding daily operational costs gives a total of
about $20 USD (in current year dollars) plus operating costs per one-way ticket on the passenger Hyperloop.


That's a tad unclear (it looks like a double entry for operational costs) but I'll attribute that to a editing mistake on the part of the the technical writer.

Anyway, compare with $115 for auto, $158 for air, and a [purely] theoretical $105 for HSR.

I will read more.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 13, 2013 12:06 pm

First real issue:
Just as aircraft climb to high altitudes to travel through less dense air, Hyperloop encloses the capsules in a reduce pressure tube. The pressure of air in Hyperloop is about 1/6 the pressure of the atmosphere on Mars.


You propose to maintain a weak vacuum in 400 miles of tube?

Which brings up another issue: if when the vacuum fails, what is the impact on the tubes in the tunnel.

Which brings up another issue: if a pod or a tube fails, how to you accomplish egress?

These issues may be covered later. I'm reading slow now.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 13, 2013 3:15 pm

Okay, having read the whole thing.

1) As a whole, the thesis is amateur hour. It serves as an overview of an idea, but not much else. I suppose as an idea-man, he'll leave the details to the engineers. He's soliciting responses from anyone and everyone via email.

Good luck with that.

If I were to send him a suggestion, it would be to hire a professional technical writer.

I suppose this is not intended for anything other than popular consumption. Billionaire though he may be, he has no intention of building this. He may build a miniature-scale proof of concept. He'll get back to us in 2020 or so.

Will it be bigger or smaller than Abdul's Tyco setup? Complete with nature scenes and HO-scale plastic cows roaming the meadows beneath the pylons? Or maybe adapting a slot-car set will better conceptualize the concept. I'm envisioning 3" PVC tubing around the perimeter of one of his mansions.

Color me unimpressed. not with you abdul. I'm always impressed with you.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:09 pm

Rob Lister wrote:Color me unimpressed. not with you abdul. I'm always impressed with you.


Sorry. No toy trains since 10 years old or so. And those not as a result of asking for them.

I always liked real ones. :coolspecs:
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Re: hyperloop

Postby no one in particular » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:14 pm

Rob Lister wrote:First real issue:
Just as aircraft climb to high altitudes to travel through less dense air, Hyperloop encloses the capsules in a reduce pressure tube. The pressure of air in Hyperloop is about 1/6 the pressure of the atmosphere on Mars.

Which brings up another issue: if a pod or a tube fails, how to you accomplish egress?


That means the pressure in the tube is about 100 pascals. Or 7.5x10-1 torr. Sure, that is indeed quite easy to maintain with readily available mechanical pumps. But if there was a gasket failure leading to a venting pod...well, they'd be problems. The good news is that you'd don't have to worry whether you should put the oxygen mask on yourself or your child first. You'll both freeze to death in seconds.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby DrMatt » Tue Aug 13, 2013 6:22 pm

Hm, Freeze? seems like a killer case of the bends, more likely
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Re: hyperloop

Postby no one in particular » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:52 pm

Admittedly, seconds is an exaggeration. Although if the leak in the pod is catastrophic, you're only going to last a few seconds before you loose consciousnesses. My comment is based upon what I've observed when we have a water leak in our coating chambers. Even though the process environment is 300 degrees C, several gallons of water have no problem freezing solid in just a few seconds. But the good news is that skin is a fairly decent gasket.

Here's a story of a guy who survived his suit venting at 1 psi (about 50 torr, so quite a bit higher pressure than we're talking here) for about 15 seconds.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Rob Lister » Tue Aug 13, 2013 7:55 pm

I'm having a discussion about this at Technology Review. Assuming a catastrophic (but not explosive) pressure failure of a pod, exposure to this near vacuum becomes fatal at some point between 1 and 2 minutes (projectile vomiting and defecating is almost immediate). An explosive failure almost ensures fatality. The oxygen masks would be useful in small leak scenarios, little else.

One opinionator suggests that the whole 400 miles of tube can be pressurized in far less than that; a matter of seconds. I can't argue because the actual design complete with things like the specs on emergency pressurization valves is utterly mythical.

I'm wondering more about actual egress of a tube full of 40 or so disabled pods. I got stuck for an hour on a Ferris Wheel once. Upside down. In the rain. I cried like a girl.

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Re: hyperloop

Postby no one in particular » Tue Aug 13, 2013 8:02 pm

Rob Lister wrote:One opinionator suggests that the whole 400 miles of tube can be pressurized in far less than that; a matter of seconds. I can't argue because the actual design complete with things like the specs on emergency pressurization valves is utterly mythical.


This wholly depends on the size, number and locations of the valves. If you were to imagine a massive gate valve comprising the entire upper 1/4 of the tube and continuing for the whole length, then sure, instant venting is possible. Anything smaller will take longer.
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Re: hyperloop

Postby Abdul Alhazred » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:09 pm

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Re: hyperloop

Postby Anaxagoras » Wed Aug 14, 2013 11:46 pm

Abdul Alhazred wrote:Pneumatic transit for cats. :coolspecs:

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/a ... es/278629/


A series of tubes. :D
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